Author Topic: AVL bullet  (Read 6895 times)

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speeddog

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on: May 03, 2014, 12:16:05 pm
Just because i can , AVL crank,rod, barell with bullet head and Acrolyte high comp piston.


ERC

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Reply #1 on: May 03, 2014, 01:21:00 pm
Nice.   ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.


speeddog

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Reply #2 on: May 03, 2014, 01:39:11 pm
Engine is 25mm shorter than a Bullet,havent finished yet.


speeddog

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Reply #3 on: May 03, 2014, 01:44:07 pm
Need the big head


Bullet Whisperer

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Reply #4 on: May 03, 2014, 02:34:03 pm
Or you can use a rod from the Redditch UNIT 350, or the dimensions of it and make an 'Iron' engine into something like this 350 [possibly 500 too] ...
 B.W.


ace.cafe

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Reply #5 on: May 03, 2014, 02:43:50 pm
What is the actual center-to-center length of this AVL rod?
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speeddog

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Reply #6 on: May 04, 2014, 08:24:13 am
I haven't got the engine here at the moment, but by memory it was 13mm shorter than a bullet rod and made of steel. I am doing this modification because the AVL has a gear type oil pump which I thought would perform better a higher rpm.  Can anyone offer any comment on this??  As you can see it has a standard avl crank and rod and if the engine is successful I will be exchanging it with an alpha crank. The acrolyte piston has a different gudgeon height to the standard bullet, I was therefore was able to use the standard avl barrel without shortening it.  Does anyone know if I can run the bullet camshafts??  BTW loved the pics Bullet Whisperer, would like the opportunity to discuss with you further.


ace.cafe

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Reply #7 on: May 04, 2014, 01:10:27 pm
I haven't got the engine here at the moment, but by memory it was 13mm shorter than a bullet rod and made of steel. I am doing this modification because the AVL has a gear type oil pump which I thought would perform better a higher rpm.  Can anyone offer any comment on this??  As you can see it has a standard avl crank and rod and if the engine is successful I will be exchanging it with an alpha crank. The acrolyte piston has a different gudgeon height to the standard bullet, I was therefore was able to use the standard avl barrel without shortening it.  Does anyone know if I can run the bullet camshafts??  BTW loved the pics Bullet Whisperer, would like the opportunity to discuss with you further.

Yes, you can run Bullet camshafts in it, but the AVL lever-type decompressor on the exhaust lifter needs to be deleted, due to being in the way. The Bullet cams have smaller base circle, so it drops the lifters a little lower in their lifter bores.

The AVL gear pumps do offer more pumping volume than the regular Bullet pumps. They do cause some oil to drain back into the sump, because they don't seal like positive displacement pumps. Andy Berry converted some Bullets to use the AVL timing cover, but eventually stopped doing it. Not worth the work, he said. We have an ACE oiling system modification which uses the hi-volume positive displacement pumps and produces a lot more flow than they normally do, and perhaps more flow than the AVL gear pumps.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 01:20:55 pm by ace.cafe »
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speeddog

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Reply #8 on: May 04, 2014, 01:53:26 pm
Thank you for the information.  I will be using the Bullet cams and the valve lifter will be taken out.  Heard I may experience  wet sumping problems.  I think the avl conrod is 163cm or there abouts am hoping it will be a high reving engine.  What are your thoughts on its characteristics, compression should be 13 to 14 to 1 will be running on methanol with a 38mm carbie.


ace.cafe

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Reply #9 on: May 04, 2014, 02:42:56 pm
Thank you for the information.  I will be using the Bullet cams and the valve lifter will be taken out.  Heard I may experience  wet sumping problems.  I think the avl conrod is 163cm or there abouts am hoping it will be a high reving engine.  What are your thoughts on its characteristics, compression should be 13 to 14 to 1 will be running on methanol with a 38mm carbie.

Okay, well that's a fairly short question which requires a very big answer!
I can't give you all the answers on that yet, because I don't know everything about your build intentions.
One thing is that you won't be doing it with that piston. You need to end up with about 35cc chamber volume to get 14:1, and that piston can't get there, no matter how high you try to set it. Also, that piston is about a quarter of a pound too heavy to be under any consideration for "high revving". 
Secondly, the "high revving" with any cams available for the Bullet, unless you do our roller rocker hi-lift mods, can't really peak the hp any higher than around the 7200 rpm area. So, that's the limit with any cam lift on the Bullet. We have seen this with other racing Bullets. They are flow limited because they are lift limited. You can have rpm extension that retains pretty decent amount of peak hp going higher than 7200 rpm, but it won't be gaining any higher hp at those rpms. If you want to make more hp at higher rpms than 7200 rpm, you need our lift kit.
Regarding the 38mm port, again there are limiting issues. The 38mm port technically can serve up to 8250 rpm before hitting port speed issues that would start to choke it off. So, that's a lot higher than 7200 rpm. The result is that the port is too big for the 7200 rpm package, and we could produce a Bullet port of probably 34-35mm that would be able to supply the ~225 cfm necessary to get to 7200 rpm, and be a much faster responding and lively engine in the moderate rpm range, like coming out of corners. But if you want the 38mm port with the 8250 rpm potential, then you need to get the valves lifted enough to flow about 285 cfm, and for that you will need our porting and our roller rocker hi-lift kit.

So basically, if you look around the world at the Bullet racing scene, they all are peaking hp in the area of 7200 rpm, although they may be winding it higher than that for revving over the hp peak on some track sections where it might be necessary. The only previous racer who seemed to be able to go higher, but kept his secrets, was Steve Linsdell. Now, we have managed to bring this kind higher revving and higher power package out for other racers, and Bullet Whisperer is going to be the first to field this on the actual race track. We shall see how it does when the get the engine complete, and on the dyno, and on the track. We are very hopeful(and expecting?) a record breaking engine here.

So, to sum up, we now have the engineered design, and the experience, to take your racing Bullet up to the next level, which was not available before. But we need to consult closely on the effort and application of our products, because there are other technical aspects to getting there than just the head work and valve train. The cams, piston, wave-tuning, etc, are all vital to the final result.

BW has the right piston for the job, and it is designed to work with our combustion chamber mods which we did in his head. I don't know if he plans to sell those pistons, but if he will, we can CNC your chamber to be correct fit for those pistons, and set your desired static compression ratio for methanol that way.
We will need to discuss cams, and also ports and flows and lifts, to suit what your desired rev range will be. We can set it up for any rpm you select.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 02:59:38 pm by ace.cafe »
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Bullet Whisperer

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Reply #10 on: May 04, 2014, 08:21:47 pm
Hi Speedog,
 A few points I may be able to help with. Firstly, I don't know the exact length of the AVL conrod, although Hitchcocks told me once. It is shorter than the 'ordinary' Bullet rod, but not as short as the 350 Redditch unit type as seen in my pictures - this is about 1 1/4" shorter than the 'ordinary' type and I could measure one of these as I have one in the workshop somewhere.
 Ordinary Bullet cams will run in the AVL type engine, the Redditch 'S' profile works very well in these.
 Our race bikes get worked very hard and use the ordinary  reciprocating oil pumps, but of the high capacity type. The drive worms and spindles are checked and changed frequently, though.
 Steve Linsdell's machine is short stroked, so higher RPM's might be expected.
 It has always been a personal preference to stick to the original bore and stroke dimensions for our machines, as that, I feel, is a major connection to the heritage of these machines. My Short Rod 350 is often mistaken for being short stroked, but it still has the full 90mm of piston travel up and down the bore. Both 500 and 350 machines have been peaking at around 7000 and 7300 RPM respectively, but after the next rebuild, the 500 should be the higher revving of the two  ;)
 I would be happy to discuss anything I might be able to help with  8)


speeddog

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Reply #11 on: May 05, 2014, 11:13:47 am
Wow, thank you for your interest, gives me a lot to think about. The current engine runs a 34mm carbie, and the head has been flowed to somewhere near 225 cfm.  At 10.5 compression on avgas.  Haven't dyno tuned this engine but had the same set up on the 612.  And that was 44 hp.  You roller rockers sound very interesting and that all makes great sense and it is fabulous to finally find a race piston.  I am keen to get the ball rolling.  Will contact you outside of the forum about details? 


ace.cafe

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Reply #12 on: May 05, 2014, 11:45:10 am
If you are wanting to contact me, just send an email.
Happy to discuss.
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