Author Topic: Buying a classic  (Read 3601 times)

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Professor

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on: March 23, 2014, 07:45:58 pm
I want to buy a classic. What year is the best investment? Did they change and upgrade to the last year of production? Or were they pretty much the same until the UCE engine? I want a 500cc if possible. Your thoughts please? 


AgentX

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Reply #1 on: March 23, 2014, 08:24:51 pm
Availability is gonna drive your deciion--just finding an older enfield nearby can be hard; specific requirements and a good price make that even harder.

That said, I'd look for one old enough to be kickstart-only and have the traditional breather setup.  The engines didn't change much, but they did add an "updated" breather system which doesn't work well.  And the electric starts are something that are best removed before they go bad.

Edit:  Also, to answer your question, there is an engine between the iron barrels and the UCE.  It's called the AVL, and is an alloy-barreled engine based on the casting of the iron barrel castings.  Different head, oil pump, electronic ignition, etc.


ace.cafe

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Reply #2 on: March 23, 2014, 08:50:19 pm
It is a matter of choices.
The classic is the Iron Barrel version, and that is what I will discuss here.
None of the models have everything  needed for my ideal Bullet, so I aim for the ones that have what I feel are the best features, and cnvert the rest of it to what I want.
Others might want the closest resemblance to the old 1950s model.

Pre-2004 4-speed models
Pros and cons:
Look the closest to the old Redditch Bullets.
Kickstart only(pre-2001, optional e-start 2001-2004)
Optional e-start is a nightmare and never available on the old Redditch Bullets. Avoid it if possible.
Has the better engine breather system.
Has the 4-speed gearbox which is like tbe original Redditch, but has very poorly spaced gear ratios for road riding.
Left shifting models of 4-speed have crappy external shift linkage which isn't great for positive shifting, but can be adjusted to be okay at best.
Conversion to right shift makes it shift much better, and eliminates the potentially hazardous underhanging right brake pedal. However, the huge raio gap between 3rd and 4th is still there unless you convert to close ratio gears

2004-2008
Pros and cons:
All have the nightmare e-start system as standard.
Can be converted back to kickstart only by changi g the whole ptimary chaincase to the indian KS only one and drilling a new bolt pattern in the engine case for it. This is a popular mod.
Has the 5 speed gearbox which is miles better than tbe 4-speed box, but is not like the 1950s gearbox.
Has a very good left shift system which is positive and sure.
Still has the underhanging brake pedal on the right.
Has the later engine breather that doesn't work well, but can be retrofitted to the older type.
Has a stiffer front brake plate to improve braking some.
As the years progress, build quality slowly improves.

for my purposes, I like 2004-2008, mostly for the 5-speed gearbox. I can convert any of the other stuff to what I want.

Pre-2000 models were okay in 1998 and 1999 because tooling was renewed. Models prior to 1998 may suffer from effects of the worn out tooling. General workmanship prior to 1998 was not as good. Tanks say "Enfield" prior to 2000, and don't say "Royal Enfield" becaus the lawsuit settling that issue came in 2000.

 Basically there is enough interchangeability between years and models that you could make any ideal version from any year Bullet if you buy the right stuff and know what to do.

Available models are:
Classic (all years) all painted.Colors are black, green, white, gray(not all years)
DeLuxe(after 1998)chrome and painted tank, chrome fenders, colors are red, black, or blue.
Sixty-5(2004-2005)all painted, fork gaiters, different color selection with metallic colors. No pinstripes.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 09:08:14 pm by ace.cafe »
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cafeman

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Reply #3 on: March 23, 2014, 09:17:43 pm
I agree with both Ace and Agent. I'd look for the color you want, and maybe ones that have as much of the upgrades and cosmetic parts that you may want to do on it already. Anything can be converted, changed or removed on these bikes so if you find one that really isn't your preferred color, or doesn't have what you want on it, depending on price, may be worth buying anyway.
 


Professor

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Reply #4 on: March 23, 2014, 09:24:53 pm
Thank you. A Lot to digest. Much more than I expected. Printed it out to carry with me.


Mike_D

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Reply #5 on: March 24, 2014, 04:43:04 pm
Everyone above is spot on.

A few more things:

If you have not found it already: royalenfields.com is a good place to look for a used Iron Barrel.

Be weary of "private imports."  These are bikes that have been imported independently and not through our host.  Some have title issues and some may have mechanical issues.  You can usually tell a "private import" by the seller claiming they have a '55 500CC Bullet, "rebuilt".  They were "rebuilt" in India, sometimes poorly.  Or not, just be cautious; usually the "private imports" I see are charging way to much for what they are anyway.  If you have any doubts to it's origin post the ad up here; I'd say most members of the classic forum can spot a "private import."


Professor

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Reply #6 on: March 24, 2014, 06:59:09 pm
I started my search. Limited number of bikes out there right now. But, part of the fun is the hunt. I appreciate all responses.


Phlakaton

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Reply #7 on: March 24, 2014, 07:57:34 pm
I have a 2008 Iron 500 ES --- the electric start failed to work probably about 2 days after I bought it new from a dealer here in Austin.  The dealer no longer services or sells RE anymore so I have been doing all my own work and maintenance.  I kick start mine everytime and have never fiddled with the ES since.  No problems with it the way it is ever since.  I do general upkeep - oil change (filter), point adjustment, valve adjustment, tire changes and some odd electrical when it rears its ugly head.  I have been getting more and more knowledge over the years from the fine peope here on the forum and the Snidal manual.  I love the look of the iron and wasnt a fan of the avl and later "shiny" engines.  One thing I have yet to do is brake work --- it's coming - been 18k miles and I still have a good pull and stopping power.  But I suppose it's time to dig that out and bite it off now.
'08 Bullet 500 Iron ES


potboiler

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Reply #8 on: March 24, 2014, 08:50:39 pm
I find, where a choice is involved, then it is a process of elimination. Make a list of descending priorities and you will end up with your ideal model. For me, my utmost priority was a lefthand gearchange (my brain just goes blank with righthand and that is just an unacceptable safety issue). Next, the 5 speed gearbox is so superior to the rather primitive 4 speed. Next, the pre-AVL iron barrelled engines just look and sound so much better than the modern ones (but you will need to ride them more gently). Finally, although disc brakes are undoubtably better than drum, for my style of riding a drum is just about good enough and is visually easier on the eye.   After I had chosen these features, there was only one model that offered them all and that was the very short production- run model 'sixty 5' ( between 2003-6, I think). The actual styling doesn't quite do it for me but that can be addressed over time with customising. So, basically, go for the engine and gearbox combination that you can live with. If the styling of the actual bike that you buy happens to be spot-on, then that is a bonus. If not, then you also have the pleasure of fine tuning the esthetics to your liking.


guss,guss

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Reply #9 on: March 25, 2014, 12:44:48 am
what part of the country are you in? assuming you are in the U.S.
 Craigslist ATL has three today in the metro area. more than i paid for my 99 but they are in much better condition.
Kill em all, let God sort em out. 
 Have a nice day.


Professor

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Reply #10 on: March 25, 2014, 01:43:16 am
California. But I will look tonight. Thanks.


Blltrdr

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Reply #11 on: March 25, 2014, 02:13:04 am
California. But I will look tonight. Thanks.

They never sold the classic iron barrel in Cali because of emission laws. Guys would circumvent this by purchasing in Nevada or Arizona. So if you find one there I'm not quite sure how you would legally register it. Just be careful and do some research.
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Vince

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Reply #12 on: March 25, 2014, 04:17:03 pm
     The advice given is good. One thing that has not been addressed: You want to "invest" in a "classic". This way lies madness. A prime showroom stock 1949 Bullet 500 is worth about $7,000 at auction per the NADA Vintage Blue Book. Average ones are worth about $1,000. For $7,000 you and buy a new one you can actually ride.
      The point is, this sucks as an investment. Get one you like and enjoy it and properly maintain it. Then when you sell in a few years you might not lose much. This "loss" will be your fun tax.  If you are even dreaming you will make money on this "investment" you will be sorely disappointed.


Phlakaton

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Reply #13 on: March 25, 2014, 04:35:40 pm
     The advice given is good. One thing that has not been addressed: You want to "invest" in a "classic". This way lies madness. A prime showroom stock 1949 Bullet 500 is worth about $7,000 at auction per the NADA Vintage Blue Book. Average ones are worth about $1,000. For $7,000 you and buy a new one you can actually ride.
      The point is, this sucks as an investment. Get one you like and enjoy it and properly maintain it. Then when you sell in a few years you might not lose much. This "loss" will be your fun tax.  If you are even dreaming you will make money on this "investment" you will be sorely disappointed.

That's pretty much what I think too... I have no plans to ever sell my 08 Iron - it goes to my son in a couple years when he needs to pick up chicks at school.  Need to get a pillion seat on that bad boy for him.  haha.
'08 Bullet 500 Iron ES


ROVERMAN

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Reply #14 on: March 25, 2014, 05:07:18 pm
Heartily agree with ACE. One thing though, don't let the horror stories of the E-Start scare you off. My 03' ES worked pretty good once i got an oil mist proof solenoid ;D ;D ;D. The main motivation for selling mine and getting a B5 was the trans and of course some of the numerous updates since mine was built. The huge gap between 3rd and 4th really was a downer on the 4 speeds.
Roverman.


AgentX

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Reply #15 on: March 25, 2014, 06:25:59 pm
     The advice given is good. One thing that has not been addressed: You want to "invest" in a "classic". This way lies madness. ...
      The point is, this sucks as an investment.

I had not even considered the possibility he was speaking of a financial investment...that would be so ludicrous it never crossed my mind.  I thought it was totally in emotional terms.  (Which can still be a negative return...)


Blltrdr

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Reply #16 on: March 25, 2014, 06:40:34 pm
I had not even considered the possibility he was speaking of a financial investment...that would be so ludicrous it never crossed my mind.  I thought it was totally in emotional terms.  (Which can still be a negative return...)

I remember turning the page of a Walneck's Classic Cycle Trader and gazing upon the RE ad showing this brand new black Bullet. I was hooked. This would be the same as someone looking for a very old car in a antique car trader mag, turns a page and eyes a brand new model T that was secretly still being produced in some foreign country. This would be jaw dropping and mind blowing to say the least. How can't you love the Classic Bullet!
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 07:38:29 pm by Blltrdr »
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ERC

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Reply #17 on: March 25, 2014, 06:51:37 pm
That must hve been the same issue I looked at back then. Called up and bought one.  ERc
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 07:51:37 pm by ERC »
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ace.cafe

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Reply #18 on: March 25, 2014, 07:16:47 pm
I knew Buzz Walneck. I bought several bikes out of his garage when I lived in the Chicagoland area.
Cool guy.
Also loved browsing his publication.
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Professor

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Reply #19 on: March 25, 2014, 07:32:45 pm
Found an 06 in Fallbrook with 4000 miles for $3500. Will see it tonight.


Blltrdr

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Reply #20 on: March 25, 2014, 07:39:28 pm
I knew Buzz Walneck. I bought several bikes out of his garage when I lived in the Chicagoland area.
Cool guy.
Also loved browsing his publication.

CHING!
2003 Classic 500 5 spd
2009 HD FLHT Police 103 6 spd
1992 Kawasaki ZG 1200 Voyager XII