Author Topic: Sprag Clutch replacement on 2005 Bullet 500 Military  (Read 9447 times)

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potboiler

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Reply #15 on: April 29, 2014, 08:35:07 am
Could the failure of the sprag put some stress on the crank/conrod causing some misalignment leading to this incident. It does seem an incredible coincidence otherwise that the sprag failure and the  subsequent work on it are not related to this damage. 


potboiler

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Reply #16 on: April 29, 2014, 09:23:44 am
Another idea...Did your sprag fail due to a massive kick-back at any time in the past? A powerful kick-back can strip the teeth on the oil pump spindle (Hitchcocks report this on their website technical pages). A failed oil pump will seize the piston leading to a broken conrod. Perhaps first take the timing chest cover off and inspect the oilpump.


Phlakaton

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Reply #17 on: April 29, 2014, 02:30:29 pm
Wow!  I've never seen something like that.  Makes me think about my feet getting lopped off at 50mph.   :o
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ace.cafe

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Reply #18 on: April 29, 2014, 03:06:00 pm
Wow!  I've never seen something like that.  Makes me think about my feet getting lopped off at 50mph.   :o

I have seen it a few times. Normally, the front part of the engine case gets blown out, around the area of the front engine mount. This one got a lot more damage on the bottom than I have seen before.
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baird4444

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Reply #19 on: April 29, 2014, 11:39:01 pm
I don't know if this is still available but this may be
the way to get a lot of parts...

     http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,19142.0.html
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Lunchbag

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Reply #20 on: April 30, 2014, 05:48:09 am
I checked the alternator nut and found it nice and tight.  With a wrench on the nut I was able to rotate the shaft almost 360 degrees.  While doing this, the broken connecting rod revealed itself (picture attached).

Could the failure of the sprag put some stress on the crank/conrod causing some misalignment leading to this incident.

I did not explain earlier that the sprag clutch actually broke 3-4 years ago.  I've been kicking it and riding it just fine since then, but feeling a bit guilty since I would occasionally find a piece of the broken sprag cage in the primary chaincase oil.  Finally I thought it was time to do the right thing and either replace the sprag clutch or (since I never got the right part from bulletwalla) clean out the whole ES gear cluster.

Another idea...Did your sprag fail due to a massive kick-back at any time in the past? A powerful kick-back can strip the teeth on the oil pump spindle.

Yes, I think the sprag clutch failed due to kickback, but I pretty much eliminated the kickback a couple years ago with ignition timing adjustment.  Having said that, it did kickback once when I started it for the last ride.  I'll have to check the oil pump.  If I find it bad that would satisfy my brain but I think that's unlikely since I rode it so much in recent years with little/no kickback.

Makes me think about my feet getting lopped off at 50mph.

I was thinking that when I saw the amount of metal that scraped off on the asphalt at the point of failure.  You can probably see in the attached picture the 2x8" bright spot at the beginning of the oil stain, as well as some other smaller witness marks.  The chunks of casing must have been thrown from the bike at a very high speed and fortunately away from me.  I found 2 chunks of the crankcase the next day, but based on the size of the gaping hole I think several pieces must have ended up in the grass.

Another detail I never mentioned is that the original owner did many performance mods.  Looking at his ad, he listed it as 535cc, hi performance cams, hi flow exhaust, hi pressure oil pump, mckenzie head with large valves, hd (valve?) springs, 34 mm Mikuni, k&n filter, lightened push rods, 8 1/2 to 1 piston (Accralite?), clutch pad w/bearing, etc.  He also provided a dyno chart that shows max torque 20.6, max hp 16.6.  I don't think that's much different from stock but I guess if there was a performance boost it would mean more risk to a stock connecting rod.

Still, most mechanical failures have some immediate cause.  Is it certain that the piston seized?  If not a result of oil starvation, what caused the piston to seize?


Ice

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Reply #21 on: April 30, 2014, 06:46:03 am
~
I was thinking that when I saw the amount of metal that scraped off on the asphalt at the point of failure.  You can probably see in the attached picture the 2x8" bright spot at the beginning of the oil stain, as well as some other smaller witness marks.  The chunks of casing must have been thrown from the bike at a very high speed and fortunately away from me.  I found 2 chunks of the crankcase the next day, but based on the size of the gaping hole I think several pieces must have ended up in the grass.

 That is one heck of an oil slick !, glad you didn't go down as a result.

Another detail I never mentioned is that the original owner did many performance mods. ~

~Still, most mechanical failures have some immediate cause.  Is it certain that the piston seized?  If not a result of oil starvation, what caused the piston to seize?

 Over heat and/or oil deprivation are the the most common causes of a piston seizure.  Aluminum con rods handle stretch very poorly so that's why I suggested piston seizure.
Piston stops, crank keeps turning, rod stretches until it is pulled in two.
A complete tear down would be needed for a proper failure analysis.



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cyrusb

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Reply #22 on: April 30, 2014, 06:14:03 pm
Well, your not alone. Even the "much improved" bullets have issues.
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ace.cafe

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Reply #23 on: May 01, 2014, 03:52:19 pm
This blown engine thing makes me need to have a rant. It is a long time pet peeve for me.
Lunchbag didn't really do anything "wrong" to make this happen to him. This falls, in large percentage, on the previous owner.

How so?

Once upon a time..., just maybe 5 short years ago, this was a common story here on this forum. I'm sure that some of the early members all recall reading plenty of this stuff happening. In fact, when I first joined here, it was the general consensus that 500 Bullets couldn't be successfully modded, and only fools would waste their time and money in such folly. And there were plenty of stories just like this one to reinforce that idea.

This happened largely due to general lack of knowledge, and partly due to penny-pinching, and there was enough of those things going on with both the purveyors and customers to make this result approach epidemic proportions among modders. The customers did not know enough about these engines to know the weak points, and  didn't want to spend much money on a "cheap bike". The parts makers knew this, and wanted to make sales, so they sold the parts to the customers as if the customers knew what to do. Crank rebuilds or racing cranks were made available, but that was more than the neophyte wanted to spend, and nobody really gave them stern warning that these bottom ends will grenade like this, if stressed much over the stock power and rpm level.

So, the fuse was lit. Install race parts on weak bottom ends, by neophyte owners who had never done anything like this before. Little or no tech support available.
On top of that, corners were cut on parts manufacture, to try to keep prices lower and still make money, and nowhere was this more evident than with the heavy pistons. The stock cast 500 low-compression piston was already too heavy(514g with pin) and the 500 had a record of failures related to this, compared to the 350 which had a much lighter piston. So then, the speed parts makers came out with forged oversize 535 pistons with high compression domes on them which weighed somewhere north of 550g, and some over 600g. This was because it costs money to lighten pistons by machine work, and so it wasn't done, in order to save cost. The result was much more reciprocating stress on a bottom end which was already prone to failing under normal stress with a piston about 2 ounces lighter. And higher heat and compression loads to boot. Another nail in the coffin.

But no, we ain't even done yet
These heavy pistons have design issues which made them more prone to detonation. And they had design issues that made them more prone to seize. And no tuning instructions were available as to how to run these pistons in terms of setting compression or timing or anything. So, detonate and seize, they did! But, not to worry, after they did, they could go back and buy another one just like it, and repeat the performance again, because nobody knew why it was happening. I know of one guy who went through 4 of them prior to me coming along with the answers.

The con rod failure usually happens when the piston seizes. It can happen on over-rev too, but breaking after piston seizure is most common. So, the seizure is typically the precipitating factor in its demise. The overly heavy piston, usually after higher revving over some time, associated with the rider's desire to taste some of that performance he paid for, causes some repeated stress and fatigue in the con rod alloy. Heat also reduces the tensile strength in most aluminum alloys. So it's already weakened, and it wasn't strong to start with. Then, the detonation starts up because the compression was usually set too high because the owner had no idea that even needed to be done, and just installed it "as is", and used standard ignition timing and God-knows-what carb tuning, and probably still in the cast iron barrel. So of course, the thing is very precarious at the very least, and is probably regularly detonating all over the place. But one day, the owner decides to open up the throttle a little more than usual at lower rpms, for maybe pulling a hill, or maybe feeling so grunt in the lower rpms, and BANG! That detonation really heats up the piston fast and it seizes hard in the bore and snaps that pathetic little con rod in half, and the busted end flails around along with the crankshaft, poking holes through the crankcase as it goes.

This isn't even getting into the other probability that the heavy piston and detonation forces were also in the process of wiping out all the main bearings and big-end bearing along the way, which might even happen before the seizure happens. That might even be considered a saving grace, because at least you didn't lose the whole engine in the process.

So this is a long way of saying that these engines need improved bottom ends for power modding, and it also is a very good idea even if you are not power modding, because they are so VERY weak inside there.
With the stuff that previous owner did, even though he may have thought he was "doing good",  he created a time bomb that ended up blowing up later. It is not caused by "modding", it is caused by not knowing what is proper to do when modding. This is a very big distinction.

Now, after I came along here, most of you know that I made a very big effort to try to help people understand what they were doing wrong, and how to make it right. I made it clear that they needed to spend the money on a good bottom end, and that it was not something that could be "skipped". I taught people to set compression, made very lightweight pistons, explained cam timing, gave tuning instructions, and worked with people neay 24/7 to try to turn this debacle around, and get the boat back on course. It's all in the archives here.
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baird4444

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Reply #24 on: May 01, 2014, 05:05:16 pm
Ace is right. These things have been around so long that most of the tolerances are at the limit and an upgrade of any 1 component will show the weakness in the next link of the chain... conrod
   I argued years ago that the 535 was a waste of time. If you do the math that is only a 17% increase....   I believe that you can easily get these gains and more by learning to fine tune and update your intake, carby, and exhaust. While I'm at it I believe that most sprague failures are caused by timing issues causing the misfire that sends the crank the wrong way; or a weak battery on a bike with IE. When the battery is weak the IE unit fails to retard the timing on start up....   Timing 
     These are basic beginner issues that we used to discuss daily years ago but sometimes we're trying to go Hi tech on what is basically a Lo tech almost agricultural piece of machinery. In the old days these things were the working mans machine. An inexpensive, cheap, way to get to and from work and maybe provide some entertainment on the week end. The average guy would tear it down on the front porch and fix it. A poor man's machine.
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« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 05:43:46 pm by baird4444 »
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Mr.Mazza

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Reply #25 on: May 02, 2014, 06:45:00 am
In regards to the bottom end, it doesn't really cost that much to achieve an insanely strong 'Bullet' proof setup. Places like Hitchcocls offer full bottom end racing proven kits assembled for around $2000, all you gotta do is strip your engine and rebuild it up (Takes a weekend, a mate and a slab of beer)
My 2 cents, and my plan in a year or so :)
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cyrusb

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Reply #26 on: May 02, 2014, 04:48:25 pm
 "He also provided a dyno chart that shows max torque 20.6, max hp 16.6.  I don't think that's much different from stock but I guess if there was a performance boost it would mean more risk to a stock connecting rod." All those modifications and that is all there is to show for it? It could very well be the mods, but lets not gloss over R.E's quality control, particularly the the iron originals.
2005E Fixed and or Replaced: ignition, fenders,chainguard,wires,carb,headlight,seat,tailight,sprockets,chain,shock springs,fork springs, exhaust system, horn,shifter,clutch arm, trafficators,crankcase vent.