[Professor]

I am buying a new Classic Chrome. I had hope I'd get the upturned exhaust, but got instead the stock exhaust long, long muffler system. I found the D&D site in Texas (Fort Worth, Royal Enfield link) site and plan to order the exhaust and K&N air filter kit. Does the fuel injection system have to be remapped by the dealer to install this system? Can the dealer even do this kind of work on an Enfield? I'd know what to do if it had a carburetor.

[DanKearney]

I am buying a new Classic Chrome. I had hope I'd get the upturned exhaust, but got instead the stock exhaust long, long muffler system. I found the D&D site in Texas (Fort Worth, Royal Enfield link) site and plan to order the exhaust and K&N air filter kit. Does the fuel injection system have to be remapped by the dealer to install this system? Can the dealer even do this kind of work on an Enfield? I'd know what to do if it had a carburetor.

I had an email exchange with the D&D folks as I am going to purchase a system from them also.  I asked them the same question as you and they told me that installing the complete system require no modification to the bike or the FI system.


Cheers,


Dan K.

[Craig McClure]

Hi All, Gene, Owner of "Holopaw Corvette" ROYAL ENFIELD dealership told me before I bought mine, that practically any muffler you choose to use, as long as it has some baffling/back pressure will work. The bike I bought has a 1960's cocktail shaker megaphone with only slight baffling & it works great. For performance I'd match my stock header & period muffler to anything else, for sound no way any DOT approved Can will compare.
  I have always preferred the white pleated paper filters to the overpriced K&N. It has been discussed here & many others don't like K&N either. Even though you are supposed to be able to clean & re-oil them, it is easy to over oil & have breathing problems. They are only oily gauze, & don't filter as well as the disposable white paper - very important for fuel injection.
Just because something is expensive doesn't always make it good.

[Professor]

Thank you. They supplied a dyno sheet on line. It is quite and improvement over stock or  a very optimistic proposal. I assume the white pleated filter is a stock filter??

[Ducati Scotty]

I believe the full exhaust kit comes with an air cleaner as well.

Scott

[Craig McClure]

Thank you. They supplied a dyno sheet on line. It is quite and improvement over stock or  a very optimistic proposal. I assume the white pleated filter is a stock filter??

The stock Enfield filter is a yellowish oily feeling pleated paper. The White Pleated paper Filter I'm using, I hunted up at O'reily Auto Parts, in the lawn mower section. A very close fit & works better than stock.  Who did the Dyno Test - the manufacturer or independent 3rd party?  Getting cynical in my old age.

[Professor]

The test was done by D&D with a 10 hp gain,  well over 30 hp. Header,  can (megaphone) filter combo.

[Professor]

Here are the exact numbers. Stock 500 is 23.1 HP at the rear wheel. With the new exhaust it is 32.2 HP at the rear wheel.
System is either full chrome or flat black. Straight or tilted up muffler. Specs are on the website at D&D. If true worth the $179.00

[Ducati Scotty]

Where do you see $179?  I see $289 for the muffler and $489 for the full system.  And I'm skeptical that anyone could squeeze 50% more power from an engine with just an exhaust and filter.

Scott

[ace.cafe]

I think that the operative wording there is "if true".

IIRC, there have been several people on this forum already using the D&D exhaust on the UCE, and I think that they are getting about 23hp at the rear wheel with it.
The stock UCE bike gets about 19-21 hp at the rear wheel.
Still, a couple ponies is pretty good.
I wouldn't be drinking that 10 hp Kool Aid from the ad.
To get 10hp at the rear wheel, the whole engine is going to have to be modified quite a bit.  There are just limits on what can be gained from an exhaust system.

[Professor]

ACE. Thank you for your insight. The price came out of a dealer video on You Tube, I know not the best source. Be that as it may. Even if they did charge $179.00 with the kind of gain you mention, why bother? When I rode the Enfield at the dealer, I seemed it ran about like my friends Vespa 300 ie scooter. It is about 22HP.

I beginning to wonder given your post on the quality of components (in particular engine bearings) if I should even bother buying one. Thank you for your insight.

[ace.cafe]

Please don't take me wrong.
I think it's worth it. And also the Hitchcock's performance exhaust for the UCE seems to be worth it.
It's good to "uncork" the engine, so that it runs more freely, and gets rid of excess heat, and makes more power.

I only point out that there are limits to gains from exhausts, which would be more in line with a few hp, and not in the range of 10 hp on these kinds of engines.
I am in favor of improvements, but I just think that knowing what to really expect will help eliminate disappointment, and help increase happiness that there were some good gains.
I actually like the D&D exhaust, and I expect that we will be using it on some of our modded UCE bikes.

I couldn't find the post in the search function, but I'm pretty sure that 72Westie posted an actual dyno run on his dyno of a UCE equipped with a D&D, and it came out around 23 hp. That was a couple of years ago.

With these bikes, it's a matter of getting a little power here, and a little more there, and it adds up to 10hp gains or so. That's the real truth of the matter. There is no bolt-on "magic bullet" that will gain that kind of power. Even our heads with a lot of mods will need to have the exhaust and filter and piston and such things added to it to get into the over 30 rwhp range. It's just not so easy to do it.

[gashousegorilla]

The test was done by D&D with a 10 hp gain,  well over 30 hp. Header,  can (megaphone) filter combo.

  10 hp at the wheel !?     You mean with all that work and testing we did on Engine mods and such..... We could have JUST changed the air filter and muffler !       Don't believe it       I would also be sceptical about not having to make fuel corrections......

[dginfw]

FWIW....
I recently got rid of my '12 C5. I had put a D&D exhaust system on it and enjoyed the difference it made. Maybe it doesn't show big gains on the dyno, but it made an improvement in throttle response, plus changed the exhaust note. Their header pipe moves and hides the O2 sensor as well.
 I didn't even use the filter kit because I'm not a huge fan of oiled cloth filters, but if you do use it you gain extra space where the factory airbox currently resides.

[JVS]

I recently got rid of my '12 C5.

=O Whyyyyyyyy

[dginfw]

=O Whyyyyyyyy

there's a Continental GT in my garage now.....

[Professor]

I appreciate the insights and advice. I will send D&D a comment in regard to their website. In the end ACE is most likely right, a new bike in terms of manufacturing, but really a retro bike with a flavor of the old Enfield's. RE makes 175,000 bikes according to their website. 5000 go elsewhere outside of India. Bottom-line at heart this is an Indian bikes for Indians with a few sent out for those who crave something out of the ordinary. Now, is that who I am??? I will ride the KTM Duke 690 this week and see where I fit. Thanks to all who responded. It is deeply appreciated.

[Craig McClure]

Hi Professor, does that mean your changing your mind about owning an Enfield?
The reason I bought mine is that, of all the bikes I have owned & ridden, Big Singles have had a special pull & fascination. My first bike was a Ducati 250 Diana in 1964. The Big British Singles I had later on, were really something special. I really enjoyed them, despite being difficult to start at times, requiring patience & devoted maintenance. Now I am 67 with old injuries, & can't kick start anything anymore (docs recommended I stop riding years ago). Along comes the new Royal Enfield. I had been reading about the east Indian Enfields since the 1970's, & followed their development with interest. There were all kinds of articles about them for years. When they came out with the new engine & Electronic Fuel Injection, with reliable ELECTRIC START, I bought a used one.
  Here we have the basic 500cc British single I knew & loved, that has been brought into the 21st century, without losing its genuine essence & beauty. Mankind is frequently kind of foolish discarding worthy tried & true old technology, just to have a NEW thing. Royal Enfield is something OLD & wonderful, that has been improved. I certainly appreciate them.

[Manatoc fox]

I do believe there is some misunderstanding regarding D&D claims.  They claim a 10% increase in power and torque at the rear wheel.  A gain of about 2 ponies and 2-3 ft lbs. with the full system and air box.  The confusion may have stemmed from the fact that they put the torque and horsepower on the same page.  I think that for about 500 bucks that would be well worth the investment.  My only question is how does that affect top end cruising speed? 

[ace.cafe]

I do believe there is some misunderstanding regarding D&D claims.  They claim a 10% increase in power and torque at the rear wheel.  A gain of about 2 ponies and 2-3 ft lbs. with the full system and air box.  The confusion may have stemmed from the fact that they put the torque and horsepower on the same page.  I think that for about 500 bucks that would be well worth the investment.  My only question is how does that affect top end cruising speed?

Chances are good that the top speed will be slightly increased, and so would the cruising speed.

[Ducati Scotty]

Someone installed it and IIRC reported that it was just more peppy all around with no notable dead spots.  It looks great too with the large diameter heat shield and I dig the flat black.  The only thing I didn't like was that it sounded a bit loud and raspy for my tastes.  When you putting around town that's no biggy but when you're hauling down the highway you're fairly high in the RPM range.  You may not hear it as you ride but everyone who lives within earshot of the highway does.  Still, I'd say it's one of the nicest looking exhausts I've seen for this bike.

Scott

[Professor]

http://danddexhaust.com/sites/default/files/2010_bullet_500_stock_vs_dd_slip-on_with_air_box_mod_0.jpg
Here is the link. It is clear what it implies.

[dginfw]

http://danddexhaust.com/sites/default/files/2010_bullet_500_stock_vs_dd_slip-on_with_air_box_mod_0.jpg
Here is the link. It is clear what it implies.

yep. looks like a gain of about 2-3HP. The stock system peaked at about 4000rpm, the modded engine a couple hundred rpm higher

[gashousegorilla]

http://danddexhaust.com/sites/default/files/2010_bullet_500_stock_vs_dd_slip-on_with_air_box_mod_0.jpg
Here is the link. It is clear what it implies.

  Yeah..... a little bit tricky if you look quick at it ?   Looks like 33.2 HP.  But that is the HP graph with the HP curve below, and with the torque curve shown up top by that 33 number.. Also ZOOMED in and not showing all of both curves.  I see what your saying    Not seeing the whole curve , it's 33.2 ft lbs of torque at around 3000 rpms, and 23.1 HP at around 4200 rpms.....  On THAT dyno anyway.


  Edit.....

  That torque curve shouldn't even be on there. Dyno's vary.... but not by THAT much. Stock torque SHOULD be in the 23 range....

 http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php?topic=14293.0

[Ducati Scotty]

Thanks for re-posting the original dyno chart.  It shows a mild improvement overall with the most prominent gains in high RPM hp.  What I noticed most is that the curves are very smooth, no holes.  That looks like a well tuned system that shouldn't have any dead spots.  For the look, the sound, and the performance improvement, probably a good buy if that's what you're after.  I have to say too that the whole thing just looks like a quality piece of kit.

Scott

[gashousegorilla]

 Yes, I looks like a quality system and probably fairly priced for what you get. Without further changes should give a modest gain.  It would be nice if they gave the AFR graph so one could tell what or if any changes were seen. Cause I bet it could be a little better then 2 or 3 HP.

   And it does LOOK smoothed.  The curve on the Dyno chart can look a little ridgy from the real wheel and drive train on the roller.... And the Techs hand on the throttle, as he starts anticipating the rev limit.... As it's printed out after a run.   As you zoom out the screen on the HP and torque curves, the lines look smoother, with less peaks and valleys.  Same goes for the AFR curve or scale.  It may look dead on the line....say at whatever, 13.5  But as you zoom in, you can see the little peaks and valleys, and those little area's are where they can really fine tune the number's with a fuel controller.  It's pretty damn cool stuff... with a few strokes of some laptop keys, You just "re jetted" and advanced or retarded your timing and can immediately see the results......

[suitcasejefferson]

As an auto/truck/equipment mechanic going on 35 years now, I definitely cannot recommend K&N filters. The FI should be able to compensate for the increased air flow without upsetting the air/fuel mixture, but a K&N is practically worthless as a filter (meant to keep dirt out of the engine) They flow several times as much dirt as a stock pleated paper filter, or an oiled foam filter. Here is my favorite link on the subject, there are hundreds more.

http://forums.nicoclub.com/debunking-the-k-n-myth-why-oem-is-better-t180100.html

[Craig McClure]

As an auto/truck/equipment mechanic going on 35 years now, I definitely cannot recommend K&N filters. The FI should be able to compensate for the increased air flow without upsetting the air/fuel mixture, but a K&N is practically worthless as a filter (meant to keep dirt out of the engine) They flow several times as much dirt as a stock pleated paper filter, or an oiled foam filter. Here is my favorite link on the subject, there are hundreds more.

http://forums.nicoclub.com/debunking-the-k-n-myth-why-oem-is-better-t180100.html

HI SUITCASE, I am in complete agreement with you there. I personally use the cheaper Pleated White Paper (less messy).  Like Skinny Tires handling better, some people will never be convinced. Paper filters are inexpensive, but don't come with a "performance reputation", cool sticker, or bragging rights. Skinny tires don't look Macho.
I know I'm cynical & tiresome - BUT CORRECT.

[72westie]

Never ran a EFI with a D+D pipe. Hell, I have never even sold a D+D pipe for one. Here is what I had found using our dyno on a bone stock '09 C5. 21 hp and roughly 26 torque. The D+D graph must have the torque values on the right side chopped off.

[Ducati Scotty]

HI SUITCASE, I am in complete agreement with you there. I personally use the cheaper Pleated White Paper (less messy).  Like Skinny Tires handling better, some people will never be convinced. Paper filters are inexpensive, but don't come with a "performance reputation", cool sticker, or bragging rights. Skinny tires don't look Macho.
I know I'm cynical & tiresome - BUT CORRECT.

I bet if you made the paper red and plastered "Best filtration in the industry!" stickers on the box sales would jump 20%

[gashousegorilla]

Never ran a EFI with a D+D pipe. Hell, I have never even sold a D+D pipe for one. Here is what I had found using our dyno on a bone stock '09 C5. 21 hp and roughly 26 torque. The D+D graph must have the torque values on the right side chopped off.

  THAT one is clear and concise !   

[TomJohnston]

Just looking at the muffler on my old BMW. Wonder if anyone has tried one. Always loved the sound and the last one I got was an exact(almost) duplicate EMGO for $79.

[Craig McClure]

Just looking at the muffler on my old BMW. Wonder if anyone has tried one. Always loved the sound and the last one I got was an exact(almost) duplicate EMGO for $79.

Might be worth a try, IF inlet size is compatible. The stock headers are a bit short, I saw some UPTURNED EXTENSIONS on EBAY # 221273456332..