Author Topic: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread  (Read 90314 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Bullet Whisperer

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,133
  • Karma: 1
Reply #120 on: May 17, 2014, 09:41:05 pm
I appreciate the compliments, but I am not expecting this particular set of mods on this head to do 40hp on the stock cams.
However, I think it would be possible with some roller rockers with a good amount of lift, and some longer duration cams for making more power at higher revs.
Sorry Ace, I can see on re-reading my last post that I worded it badly. I wasn't trying to over estimate the potential of this particular build, more suggesting that 40 bhp could probably be achieved with the various upgrades now available, as  when I hit that 33.34 bhp, none of your tuning mods were available at that time  ;)
 B.W.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 09:44:17 pm by Bullet Whisperer »


ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,457
  • Karma: 1
  • World leaders in performance/racing Bullets
Reply #121 on: May 17, 2014, 10:11:55 pm
Sorry Ace, I can see on re-reading my last post that I worded it badly. I wasn't trying to over estimate the potential of this particular build, more suggesting that 40 bhp could probably be achieved with the various upgrades now available, as  when I hit that 33.34 bhp, none of your tuning mods were available at that time  ;)
 B.W.
Thanks B.W.!

I agree that the AVL platform has potential of that level or more, if it was modded with what we can do now.

The AVL guys have been waiting a long time. Maybe we should do a collaboration on an AVL for somebody?!


« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 10:14:02 pm by ace.cafe »
Home of the Fireball 535 !


ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,457
  • Karma: 1
  • World leaders in performance/racing Bullets
Reply #122 on: May 23, 2014, 08:07:10 pm
Pics!

#!) Ace proprietary valve spring stack, with beehive spring, titanium retainer, stem seals, big valves. Same as the Fireball, but  very slightly smaller valves.

#2) Shown top view with rocker in place, and also shows Ace 32mm alloy intake manifold.

#3) View of matching manifold and spring stack, rockers out.

#4) View of intake port with flow-matched manifold attached.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 09:05:26 pm by ace.cafe »
Home of the Fireball 535 !


ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,457
  • Karma: 1
  • World leaders in performance/racing Bullets
Reply #123 on: May 23, 2014, 08:14:43 pm
Now, notice the difference that was done to the AVL combustion chamber.

Pic #1 is the stock AVL chamber

Pic #2 is the Ace Chamber

Note that the Ace chamber is completely different shape for improved flow, has bigger valves, is more compact for higher compression, has more squish area for improved mixture motion, and is coated with the CerMet Thermal Barrier coating.

Yes, there is a little scar on the metal near that one edge of the chamber, but that whole thing was all welded-up, and re-shaped by hand, and then surface milled for flatness. The little scar will not be any problem. Didn't want to mill the head down any further than that.

That was a huge amount of work, and a will be a great improvement to the power of the bike. This is a major step forward on the AVL.
There might need to be a little retarding adjustment on the ignition timing, but we'll see how it does first, and adjust if needed.
9.8:1 compression ratio on this.

This can also be done to the UCE, because the UCE chamber is the same as the AVL.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 08:23:45 pm by ace.cafe »
Home of the Fireball 535 !


High On Octane

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,075
  • Karma: 0
Reply #124 on: May 23, 2014, 10:30:29 pm
Tom - I've noticed that you tend to add metal to the combustion chamber between the valves.  Is this to increase compression or to help with quench?

Scottie J
2001 Harley Davidson Road King


ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,457
  • Karma: 1
  • World leaders in performance/racing Bullets
Reply #125 on: May 23, 2014, 10:48:39 pm
Tom - I've noticed that you tend to add metal to the combustion chamber between the valves.  Is this to increase compression or to help with quench?

Scottie J

It is mostly to support the flow past the valve. Sometimes called Pressure Recovery. But it also reduces chamber volume for increased compression.
It mostly works on the narrower valve angles, and the non-hemi chambers. For us with the wide valve angle hemi chambers, it isn't needed. The Big Head, AVL, and UCE all have 26 degree valve angles, but the old Bullet and your heads are 40 degree valve angles hemi.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 10:58:38 pm by ace.cafe »
Home of the Fireball 535 !


boggy

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,841
  • Karma: 0
  • Karma Ultra: 7
Reply #126 on: May 23, 2014, 11:18:23 pm
The AVL guys have been waiting a long time. Maybe we should do a collaboration on an AVL for somebody?!

And I just have this AVL lying around without clutch plates while I cheat on it with a Supermoto.  You know, when I was planning my move I almost thought about shipping the Bullet to you for just this thing.  I had to pay to get it across the whole country anyways.  Figures a RI guy would beat me to it.  ;)

I'm watching this thread closely.  I'd love to have my AVL reach the potential you are talking about.  I'm never going to sell it so it's got to happen at some point.  It's awesome to see the pictures and keep up with the progress.

Boggy 
2007 AVL
2006 DRZ400SM


ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,457
  • Karma: 1
  • World leaders in performance/racing Bullets
Reply #127 on: May 23, 2014, 11:33:57 pm
And I just have this AVL lying around without clutch plates while I cheat on it with a Supermoto.  You know, when I was planning my move I almost thought about shipping the Bullet to you for just this thing.  I had to pay to get it across the whole country anyways.  Figures a RI guy would beat me to it.  ;)

I'm watching this thread closely.  I'd love to have my AVL reach the potential you are talking about.  I'm never going to sell it so it's got to happen at some point.  It's awesome to see the pictures and keep up with the progress.

Boggy

If you added the high ratio roller rockers and a high compression piston to this package, you would be stunned at the performance level of it.
It will be real nice as it is now, but with some big lift, it would be a monster!
Home of the Fireball 535 !


Adrian

  • Guest
Reply #128 on: May 23, 2014, 11:43:50 pm
Nice job, Tom, I could have used some of this seven years ago!  Glad to see my old pictures of the stock head came in useful, but did you notice the poor quality of the milled finish on that stock cylinder head joint face?

Fireball(ish) performance levels beckon for Tooseevee - or would they be exceeded? I was thinking about a Big Head model of some sort for another possible project, this might change everything...

Boggy, you might like to wait and see how Tooseevee gets on, but I do love the idea of a 500 AVL that can really do the business. Hmm...

Regards,

A.






boggy

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,841
  • Karma: 0
  • Karma Ultra: 7
Reply #129 on: May 23, 2014, 11:55:46 pm
it would be a monster!
but I do love the idea of a 500 AVL that can really do the business. Hmm...

Big-head AVL monster?  Heck ya... Sign me up!  Really excited to see how tooseevee's comes together.
2007 AVL
2006 DRZ400SM


ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,457
  • Karma: 1
  • World leaders in performance/racing Bullets
Reply #130 on: May 24, 2014, 12:02:20 am
Nice job, Tom, I could have used some of this seven years ago!  Glad to see my old pictures of the stock head came in useful, but did you notice the poor quality of the milled finish on that stock cylinder head joint face?

Fireball(ish) performance levels beckon for Tooseevee - or would they be exceeded? I was thinking about a Big Head model of some sort for another possible project, this might change everything...

Boggy, you might like to wait and see how Tooseevee gets on, but I do love the idea of a 500 AVL that can really do the business. Hmm...

Regards,

A.
Hi Adrian,
Thanks for that photo! I knew it would be useful one day. Regarding the stock surfacing job, I hardly even pay attention to the stock condition anymore. I have come to expect it to be horrid, and just move on with the mods, and fix everything as we go.

It will need some more lift to meet or exceed Fireball level. The stock lift just isn't enough. But I think it will be close in the midrange, where Tooseevee wanted the improvement. It should have very good response, and strong pull when rolling on the throttle for passing. I'm sure it will fill the aims he had for it.

Each pwrson can have us do what the want for their  individual needs. That's what is nice about custom services.
Home of the Fireball 535 !


ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,457
  • Karma: 1
  • World leaders in performance/racing Bullets
Reply #131 on: May 24, 2014, 12:09:09 am
Big-head AVL monster?  Heck ya... Sign me up!  Really excited to see how tooseevee's comes together.
Boggy,
For most intents and purposes, the AVL head is a modern version of the Big Head. We can do most of the same things to it, and our same roller rockets from the our Big Head package will work in the AVL head. We can make it a powerhouse. This was not really possible before we pioneered these roller rocker systems, but now the floodgates are wide open for power production on all these heads. We have the key, and we know what to do with it.
Home of the Fireball 535 !


tooseevee

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,571
  • Karma: 1
  • Everybody's havin' them dreams
Reply #132 on: May 24, 2014, 12:09:21 am


I don't know if you have cored-out that "hot tube" restrictor out of the tail end of your header pipe yet, or if you have an aftermarket exhaust, but now would be the time for that if you have not already done so.

               Yes. I removed the whole tube over a year ago. And it has a totally empty '60s or 70's type bottle "silencer". & I have 4", 8" & 12" exhaust tip type baffles to play with if I need to. And I could also play with a lollipop.
RI USA '08 Black AVL Classic.9.8:1 ACEhead/manifold/canister. TM32/Open bottle/hot tube removed. Pertronix Coil. Fed mandates removed. Gr.TCI. Bobber seat. Battery in right side case. Decomp&all doodads removed. '30s Lucas taillight/7" visored headlight. Much blackout & wire/electrical upgrades.


boggy

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,841
  • Karma: 0
  • Karma Ultra: 7
Reply #133 on: May 24, 2014, 12:22:53 am
#4) View of intake port with flow-matched manifold attached.

Ace, I went back in this thread to see if I missed it - Does this manifold allow for a better fit with most headers?  When I got my Goldstar header, the diameter was smaller than the exhaust port.  Is that the primary function of that manifold, or does have more to do with the flow than the fit?
2007 AVL
2006 DRZ400SM


ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,457
  • Karma: 1
  • World leaders in performance/racing Bullets
Reply #134 on: May 24, 2014, 12:25:44 am
The manifold is for the intake mounting og a TM32 or TM34.
The exhaust mounting method is unchanged.
Home of the Fireball 535 !