Author Topic: rear brake lock up  (Read 3240 times)

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Sectorsteve

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on: January 14, 2014, 01:53:59 am
the last few days my rear brake has been a homo. this would be due to the fact ive done something wrong. a few weeks back i changed the rear sprocket and chain. did a few thousand kms after this no worries. had to adjust chain tension on my road trip once. after i got home my rear brake started acting funny. if i applied it too hard it would lock up. about an hour ago i hit the rear brake hard and the whole thing locked up and now it looks like the whole wheel is on an angle - bent axle or something. Im going to pull it all apart and re seat everything, taking my time this time. i cant imagine that i bent the axle rod. that thing is solid.


Ducati Scotty

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Reply #1 on: January 14, 2014, 03:15:34 am
Make sure you center the shoes/backing plate.  Tighten the brake adjuster up all the way and lock the brakes.  Then tighten up the axle, etc. and let off the adjuster.  This makes sure the shoes both contact at the same time.  If only one is hitting you can get some odd braking behavior.

Scott


Sectorsteve

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Reply #2 on: January 14, 2014, 07:19:26 am
Big problems. Brake lock up has bent swing arm , bent brake housing, broken brake pad, bent brake housing bolt. Everything's askew. Now I can't get the 30mm wheel but off as it's turning hollow bolt


whoguy

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Reply #3 on: January 14, 2014, 10:50:10 am
Hey Sectorsteve,

That's happened to me, though not as bad as what sounds like has happened to you.... My rear locked up due to the bolt loosening and warping... not so much because it wasn't tight enough, most probably too tight.

My rear brake plate was warped, bolt warped, brake shoes were okay with tiny bit of damage to the seating ends... rear swing arm end (flat part) was slightly warped, but I banged it straight again.

Had to replace brake plate, bolt, nut and washer to get her back... The replacement bolt had a different thread and looked like it was a higher grade of material (not black, but shiny silver high tensile steel look). Because of the different thread, I had to get a new washer and nut. Since then, no probs... now when I adjust the rear brake, I usually go for more play than less.

Cheers

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Sectorsteve

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Reply #4 on: January 14, 2014, 11:19:17 am
hey who guy. yes sounds like exactly the same thing. my swing arm isnt bent but the flat plate is. so ive gotta bang it into shape and buy all those bits you did. good thing i love working on my RE


JVS

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Reply #5 on: January 14, 2014, 11:53:09 am
I'm surprised to know of this issue O_O

My rear locked up due to the bolt loosening and warping.

Which bolt is this? 30mm main? Castle nut? Or the anchor nut?

Because this is a serious issue and shouldn't be happening. Either one of those bolts weren't tightened properly or they were not tightened in the correct order. Just today I had the rear sprocket off for a tyre change + rear brake clean/cam greasing. I have tightened everything along with centering the brake shoes with the brake applied, but haven't gone for a ride as I had to go somewhere else on the car.

I've done this process before and didn't have a problem in between. Distance travelled within these changes was about 9000km/5625mi. The rear brake was performing well even after this distance, but as the tyre was off, I decided to give it a clean etc.

Again, I'm glad that the problem wasn't much more serious because a lock-up during a turn can be one hell of a cheek clencher.  :-\
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Sectorsteve

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Reply #6 on: January 14, 2014, 12:29:37 pm
yeah its a weird one. ive had the back wheel off heaps , changed brake pads etc a few times and never had this happen. i know about the re seating of the brakepads and which order to tighten up the nuts.
this has caused a fair bit of damage to the rear end bending things. i need the bike on the road so im gonna try riding without rear brakes which means the sprocket will be open until my parts come.


barenekd

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Reply #7 on: January 14, 2014, 10:07:24 pm
The thing that cause this problem is not having the brake centered properly so the cam can over rotate and lock up the shoes. Guys who have greased the cams usually don't have the problem, but proper setup avoids it too.
Here is an old post that I wrote a couple of years ago on how to properly set up the brakes.

I did get to work on my brakes last Saturday and get the rear brake properly centered. It's working quite well now. But for you who don't think the brakes work decently on these bikes, Jack took the lead going down San Gabriel Canyon and it's a pretty good long downhill run. It drops from about 6,000' to 2,000' in about 10 miles of fairly tight twisties with some occasional short straights. I got up over 80 on a couple of those trying to catch back up with him. He was going pretty fast, so it was a long time trying to close the initial gap I let him get. He was definitely working me!
Coming into some of those turns and slowing down quickly to 20-25 took some severe braking and I found that the K-70s could definitely be locked up of both ends with the proper amount of pressure. Guys complain about the feel, but I think the brakes offer very good feedback. The harder you squeeze, the more they impede your flow! It's a very linear feeling. They're not going to do 2 fingered stoppies, but you're not going to be surprised by one, either. The braking distance isn't going to be down with a Superbike, but the tires are the limiting factor, not the brakes. You just don't have all the rubber on the ground, nor the tire compound to get all that much traction. But, within the tire limitations, the brakes are all they should be.
As for setting up the rear brakes, put the bike of the center stand, loosen the axle nut, the brake hub nut and the brake pivot nut. That's the one on the brake backplate in front of the axle. Might want to check and adjust the chain while you're there. Do that before you start working on the brake.
Tighten the brake adjustment nut down so the wheel is tightly locked. This will center the brake shoes, and ensure that both shoes are hitting the brake drum when the brake is applied. Torque the Hub Nut, then the axle nut, then the pivot pin nut. Back off the brake adjustment until it is just free so the wheel will spin. You shouldn't have any drag. A couple of notches, (a half to one turn) of the adjusting nut should have it going from locked to drag free rotation. If there is still some dragging a little after another half turn or so, you are probably not quite centered. The brake pedal movement should by quite short between completely free to locked. On the long stock pedal it might need to move a 1/4" or so. My rearsets with the shot pedal is about 1/8". The brakes should be able to lock up the rear wheel, but it will take some pressure, but they will feel better over the whole range.
The next time you have to take the wheel off, take the brake off and grease the brake actuating cam lightly. It will keep you brakes from sticking. There have been a few reports from the iron barrel guys about brakes sticking and breaking! The grease will help alleviate that.
Not much can be done with the disk brakes, other than, of they are soft and take a lot of travel, they probably need to be bled. Those brakes don't take a whole lot of fluid, so I do them from the top. Run a clear hose from the bleeder fitting to a pan and submerge the end  in some brake fluid.  Put a loop in the hose so you can see if air is pumping out of the caliper.Take the cap off the master cylinder and fill the reservoir with DOT 3 or 4 brake fluid. loosen the bleeder about a quarter to a half turn and squeeze the brake lever. Hold the lever in and close the bleeder, Let the handle out, open the bleeder and squeeze the lever again and and again holding the lever in, close the bleeder again let the lever out keep an eye on the reservoir and fill it before it can get to the bottom of the reservoir. Continue the pumping process until all the air has been run out of the hose.
It doesn't really take too much fluid to completely replace the existing fluid. When you're satisfied the air has been pushed out of the caliper, close the bleeder and try the brake. It should have a very solid feel without a lot of travel. If it has a lot of travel but feels solid, fill the reservoir and replace the cap Make sure the bleeder is closed and remove the hose
To get rid of the excess travel, squeeze the lever very hard and hold it for several seconds. This will push the pucks out farther and keep the lever from having to move so far. Repeat this action a few times and the lever travel should shorten up. This is an exercise I use while sitting at stoplights. Keeps the brakes tuned a bit better.
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whoguy

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Reply #8 on: January 14, 2014, 11:01:30 pm
I'm surprised to know of this issue O_O

Which bolt is this? 30mm main? Castle nut? Or the anchor nut?

Because this is a serious issue and shouldn't be happening. Either one of those bolts weren't tightened properly or they were not tightened in the correct order. Just today I had the rear sprocket off for a tyre change + rear brake clean/cam greasing. I have tightened everything along with centering the brake shoes with the brake applied, but haven't gone for a ride as I had to go somewhere else on the car.

I've done this process before and didn't have a problem in between. Distance travelled within these changes was about 9000km/5625mi. The rear brake was performing well even after this distance, but as the tyre was off, I decided to give it a clean etc.

Again, I'm glad that the problem wasn't much more serious because a lock-up during a turn can be one hell of a cheek clencher.  :-\


It's not the castle nut, but the smaller one.

I found that the washer on mine was deformed, perhaps from overtightening and did not secure the bolt to the slot on the swing arm plate which allowed for vertical movement of the entire rear brake assembly. When the entire assembly rotated a little, the offset caused the rear brake to lock on.... hence why now I prefer more freeplay rather than less in case it ever moves again.

The washer also seemed to be made of a rather soft metal I found.... but the replacement bolt and washer are of higher quality.

Thanks Bare for that informative thread, and yes, I agree the rear brake works fine for what it is  and like you said, everything must be centred properly.
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Sectorsteve

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Reply #9 on: January 25, 2014, 09:34:06 pm
Who guy when you bashed out the plate on the swing arm did you take the swing arm off bike? It would appear to me the plate on swing arm is still bent because the lock up happened again, this time going slow so i dont think anythings bent. Im so scared to use the back brake now...
I really took my time with this repair and for a few days it was sweet, but alas it happened again. To compensate for the crooked plate i didnt tighten the brake nut up too much. im tryna figure out in my head why this is happening... Its a PITA. Im gonna take the swingarm off and really get that thing straight, because even if its slightly out this will cause this to happen. The brakes are seated properly. I put the original lock up down to riding around high mountains for a week carrying about 400kg inc bike. The brakes etc were changed ages ago and there was no problem until months later - or about 6000km.


mattsz

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Reply #10 on: January 26, 2014, 12:13:54 am
FYI, maybe as a last resort: Last spring, I got a quote from CMW for a new B5 swingarm - $120 ordered through a dealer...

Edit: that's in the US...
« Last Edit: January 26, 2014, 12:14:23 pm by mattsz »


whoguy

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Reply #11 on: January 26, 2014, 07:51:44 am
Who guy when you bashed out the plate on the swing arm did you take the swing arm off bike? It would appear to me the plate on swing arm is still bent because the lock up happened again, this time going slow so i dont think anythings bent. Im so scared to use the back brake now...
I really took my time with this repair and for a few days it was sweet, but alas it happened again. To compensate for the crooked plate i didnt tighten the brake nut up too much. im tryna figure out in my head why this is happening... Its a PITA. Im gonna take the swingarm off and really get that thing straight, because even if its slightly out this will cause this to happen. The brakes are seated properly. I put the original lock up down to riding around high mountains for a week carrying about 400kg inc bike. The brakes etc were changed ages ago and there was no problem until months later - or about 6000km.

Gday Sectorsteve,

Mine wasn't too badly warped and I banged mine straight while still on the bike using a metal mallet as an anvil and a hammer. When centering the the brake, make sure the bolt is hard against the "bottom" of the slot on the rear plate before you tighten the nut. That way it won't have any further room to rotate when you press the rear brake... also make sure the plate of the drum assembly is perfectly square againt the plate of the swing arm!

As mentioned before, I prefer more freeplay just incase it ever does move again... have gotten use to the extra toe down when braking.

Goodluck
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Sectorsteve

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Reply #12 on: February 19, 2014, 11:22:29 pm
Hi guys.
Just an update on this back brake problem ive had for a while.
Just changed all the pivot bolts and brake cam. the original brake cam that comes with the bike has a round metal top. this cam was slightly bent meaning that when brake was applied, this could get stuck more easily. the replacement cam didnt have the round plate at end of cam and of course is straight. i think we will be alright now.


whoguy

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Reply #13 on: February 20, 2014, 09:25:17 am
Glad you got it sorted Sector... Goodluck Mate
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Sectorsteve

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Reply #14 on: March 04, 2014, 01:16:07 am
And its happened again.....its going to a bike mechanic.  Something is bent surely