Author Topic: Clearcoat question  (Read 4179 times)

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Captwilly

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on: January 14, 2014, 01:47:37 am
Just got a 2013 C5 and I am having a clearcoat issue. First a small dime shape top layer of clearcoat flaked off after I tried the tank parcel grid. The other problem is when a fingerprint gets on the paint it seems to go through the clearcoat and will not polish out, any one out there have any issues? My dealer just dismissed it but took some photos, he suggested that I re-polish.


Ducati Scotty

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Reply #1 on: January 14, 2014, 03:16:49 am
Sounds like your clear coat was not properly cured.  Any problems other than the tank?  If your dealer won't handle it contact CMW directly.

Scott


High On Octane

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Reply #2 on: January 14, 2014, 04:45:25 am
Who ever sprayed that tank at the factory didn't put enough activator in the clear and it never hardened properly.  Go back to your dealer and have them order you a new one, the tank you have will need to be stripped down to bare metal before it can be refinished.

Scottie
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Captwilly

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Reply #3 on: January 14, 2014, 03:30:56 pm
Thanks guys. It is not just the tank but the tool/air box, the fenders seem fine.


heloego

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Reply #4 on: January 14, 2014, 03:40:24 pm
+1 to all replies.
Your only option is to return it to the dealer and get another. There's nothing you can do other than re-paint or replace. QA definitely missed those bits.   :-[
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Roeland

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Reply #5 on: January 14, 2014, 03:42:46 pm
Any idea what clear coat to use on a Military? I bought some matt twin pack clear coat locally at great expense but still get a low sheen finish? I want it absolutely matt.....?


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Reply #6 on: January 14, 2014, 05:57:23 pm
Any idea what clear coat to use on a Military? I bought some matt twin pack clear coat locally at great expense but still get a low sheen finish? I want it absolutely matt.....?

Until recently all matte finishes were a single stage matte urethane enamel.  I would assume this is the case with Enfields.  Matte/flat clear coats didn't gain popularity until the last couple of years and are rather expensive.  I highly doubt RE is using base/clear with matte clears.

Scottie
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Captwilly

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Reply #7 on: January 14, 2014, 09:53:28 pm
Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I contacted my dealer and he sent photos in to RE USA and we will do a warranty claim.

Also just wanted to say that I am new to RE and love the bike.


Craig McClure

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Reply #8 on: January 16, 2014, 09:22:32 pm
ON CLEARCOAT:  I do my best to avoid Clear Coat on MY vehicles. I prefer to rub-out a finish when it becomes dull, & find my vehicles that have single stage paint have looked better longer, with my diligent maintenance. Unfortunately when clear coat fails/flakes/discolors, you're screwed, & in for a big expense - can't just touch it up, a RE-DO ONLY. Give that option some thought when contemplating buying a new paint job.
Best Wishes, Craig McClure


High On Octane

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Reply #9 on: January 17, 2014, 11:16:04 am
ON CLEARCOAT:  I do my best to avoid Clear Coat on MY vehicles. I prefer to rub-out a finish when it becomes dull, & find my vehicles that have single stage paint have looked better longer, with my diligent maintenance. Unfortunately when clear coat fails/flakes/discolors, you're screwed, & in for a big expense - can't just touch it up, a RE-DO ONLY. Give that option some thought when contemplating buying a new paint job.

Craig, you have forgotten about EVERY blue and white car that GM painted in late the 80's and early 90's!!!  They were ALL SINGLE STAGE AND ALL THEIR PAINT FELL OFF MANY YEARS AGO!!!  The only cars of those that have paint still on them are the ones that were completely repainted ALREADY!!!   ;)

There are SOOOO many factors that affect a paint jobs longevity including brand of paint, experience of the person doing the job, the enviro-conditions at which the paint job was performed, and most importantly THE QUALITY OF THE WORK.  Single stage (SS) paint is just as susceptible to problems as a base/clear (B/C) job, it just doesn't seem like it as single stage paint isn't used very often anymore except for industrial applications.  And the reason it is used so widely on industrial applications is cost efficiency.  Regardless, the number 1 reason for failure on ANY paint job is POOR PREPARATION, which all boils down to the experience and knowledge of the person/s doing the work.  This is also why most body guys do only body work, most painters only paint, and preppers only prep.  There is  so much to know about body and paint in EACH DEPARTMENT it can make your head spin.  I have only met 3 other people who can take a car from start to finish on their own like I can, 1 person was the guy who taught me, one guy was not good at body work at all but was a descent painter, the other guy I'm now good friends with.

As a general rule, single stage paint is more durable, but again, it all depends on the exact conditions of the entire process as to how long the paint job will last.  SS paint can be wet sanded and buffed like clear coat, but you have to be much more careful as the paint doesn't have as much build or hardness as clear coat and you can sand through your color much more easily ruining the paint job.  Also, if you are spraying a metallic SS paint, you BEST make sure you get it right the 1st time.  If you have to wet sand a run out of metallic SS paint everyone will know exactly where you screwed up because once you sand through the metallic flakes it sticks out like blaze orange amongst camouflage.   The plus side to single stage paint is that it is cost effective, easy to buff/polish, easy to touch up.  The major down side is that single stage is not as UV resistant as base/clear and will need to be garaged for maximum life, also, it is impossible to get the deep gloss from SS that you get from B/C.

Base/clear is a little more tricky to work with and definitely takes a skilled technician that knows what they're doing to get it done right.  As Craig stated, base/clear can chip, peel, and flake IF THE CAR IS NOT PAINTED/PREPPED PROPERLY!  And I can't stress that enough.  I've seen many guys (some of whom worked for me, and most of which I wouldn't LET work for me) that can talk the talk, but when they start to walk the walk, they forget to tie their shoes and stumble the whole way falling down before the finish line.  But when a car is painted with precision and excellence, the result is like NOTHING SS paint could ever dream of being.  As I mentioned in an earlier post, even high dollar show cars that are painted flat or matte are now B/C using VERY expensive PPG matte clear.  Also the benefits of B/C are unmeasurable compared to SS, including, better over-all longevity, easier to clean/maintain/wax, better appearance, better color match, better color depth, color can be blended over only damaged area and then clear the entire panel, better UV resistance, will not distort color when high-speed buffing, and unlimited color options!  Downfalls include being more expensive, shows sand scratches if not prepped properly, clear coat flaking and peeling if not prepped properly, marbleizing of color if not sprayed properly, and more succeptable to enviro-contamination.  All of which (except enviro-conditions) are controlled by the quality of the technician performing the work.

For the record, I use PPG products and spray base/clear most often, but I also use single stage and rattle can paints as well, it all depends on what I'm doing and WHAT IS THE BEST PAINT FOR THE APPLICATION.  Paint jobs can be beautiful, but they can also be downright hideous, but it's all in the hands of the technician.  How much they know, how much they care and just how big of a bad ass they REALLY are.  On a final note, quality/brand of paint makes a HUGE difference.  I've been shooting PPG products for the last 7 years and have had the best success with them.  I have painted a handful of show cars that were appraised at $35,000 PLUS when I was finished restoring them using PPG paint, and those customers speak very highly of my work (One customer went out of his way to track me down after I quit the last shop just so I could do all the touch ups and what not out of my garage  :D ).  Other brands worth mentioning are PPG's economy lines, Omni and Shop Line.  Also, DuPont's Chromabase line is an efficient way to go if PPG/Omni/Shop Line are not available.  Spies Hecker is phenomenal paint, but on the expensive side.  Sherwin Williams talks the talk but I haven't had much luck with quality results with their products so I don't use them anymore.

Scottie
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 12:19:08 pm by Scottie J »
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tooseevee

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Reply #10 on: January 17, 2014, 02:32:34 pm
Craig, you have forgotten about EVERY blue and white car that GM painted in late the 80's and early 90's!!!  They were ALL SINGLE STAGE AND ALL THEIR PAINT FELL OFF MANY YEARS AGO!!!  The only cars of those that have paint still on them are the ones that were completely repainted ALREADY!!!   ;)

There are SOOOO many factors that affect a paint jobs longevity including brand of paint, experience of the person doing the job, the enviro-conditions at which the paint job was performed, and most importantly THE QUALITY OF THE WORK[

             Everything you say, Scottie, (& I deleted most of it) is absolutely, perfectly right on correct. Prep is King! The prep's gotta be right or you might as well not do it.

              Reading the instructions on specialty products also matters & it's something that people don't do very often (or they're lazy & want it to be magic) & then they bitch & moan about the PRODUCT & it's not the product's fault at all!

               (The last car I did was finished off with Chroma two-pack urethane on an epoxy primer as an added rust preventative & is in a car collection in Florida now. It came out like glass. I did a lot of macro-prep myself over about two years, but left the final prep & finish shooting to a pro. Two guys spent a full 40 hour week on the final finish prep & shoot).
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Reply #11 on: January 17, 2014, 04:14:39 pm
And while we're on the subject, people often ask me why I charge what I do for paint work.  The bottom line is that it's not the cost of materials, it's the labor that goes into making it happen.  I charge minimum $2000 for a complete paint job on a full size car and a minimum of a 2 week turn around.  A 10 year old car with the common dents and dings associated with a 10 year old car will take on average 30-50 hours to complete.  At $40hr labor this doesn't even cover materials hardly.

Scottie
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Craig McClure

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Reply #12 on: January 17, 2014, 04:24:54 pm
Hey guys, Regardless, I still require only single stage on MY vehicles-when paint is required. They are mine, & I'm old fashioned, & happy that way.
You Pros, Please don't take it personally, Everybody is different.
Best Wishes, Craig McClure


Ducati Scotty

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Reply #13 on: January 17, 2014, 04:37:53 pm
Is there even a car on the market today with single stage paint?


Craig McClure

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Reply #14 on: January 17, 2014, 04:54:16 pm
Is there even a car on the market today with single stage paint?
I'm sure there probably isn't a single new car made with single stage paint- but my old crates I've had to have re-painted, due to clear coat failure, all get single stage. They stay waxed & garaged, & guaranteed never to have clear coat failure again. Old people are allowed to be opinionated & crusty.
Best Wishes, Craig McClure


High On Octane

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Reply #15 on: January 17, 2014, 05:26:15 pm
Hey guys, Regardless, I still require only single stage on MY vehicles-when paint is required. They are mine, & I'm old fashioned, & happy that way.
You Pros, Please don't take it personally, Everybody is different.

No offense taken.  There's absolutely nothing wrong with single stage.  I've sprayed it many many times.  And if that works for you best by all means stick with it!   :)

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