Author Topic: ACE Is Assisting With Bulldog Customs Twin - PROJECT ABORTED  (Read 68957 times)

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Bullet Whisperer

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I just found these.  What do you think?

http://www.classic-motorcycles.co.uk/cgi-bin/ecom.cgi?Command=ShowProduct&db_pid=4903
In a word, NO.
Make custom pistons. There is nothing worth a crap off the shelf.
You can get a minimum order of 4 from any piston company, and you have 2 twin cylinder engines. It all adds up just right.
I use Wiseco forged 11:1 pistons for Triumph T120's in my 350 Bullet / Clipper racing engines, these are very good. I don't know if they would suit your needs, but I have to shorten the barrels by 1 fin and bush the small ends down to suit the smaller diameter gudgeon [wrist] pins
 B.W.


hoffman900

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Hey Tom, just browsing this site and saw this.

Just a fyi, Racetec (2618 alloy) doesn't have a minimum order for a custom set-up. If you order less than 4, you just get dinged with one $30 'set-up' fee. Not including the set-up fee, these pistons shown were $168 a piece, including the skirt coating and the lateral gas ports. Dual pin oilers are standard. Price also includes pins and locks.

I made a mold, selected the ring package I wanted, filled out the spec sheet, and sent the Wiseco that I had to them, and basically told them "this is what I need, this is what I have / is available, make it better", which they did. It's a beautiful piece.

To all, for rings, contact Total Seal and discuss with them what you want to do before filling out a custom piston sheet. I'm running a 1mm / 1.2mm / 2.8mm ring set-up (90mm bore). Total Seal will also cut any of their iron 2nd rings to a Napier design for a fee of $9.50 a ring.

I already shared this with Tom, but here is a custom RaceTec (former co-owner of JE, the other owns CP) piston for a Yamaha SR/TT 500







and a little factory tour (cool little 10 minute video... most of the manufacturers are similar)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elDjDGlHRKs
« Last Edit: October 07, 2014, 10:41:51 pm by hoffman900 »


ace.cafe

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Nice piston, Bob!
We'll look into that.
Thanks!
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High On Octane

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I called Racetec and they do not have the machining to do a 72mm bore.  But they referred me to Arias Pistons so I called them.  I got a quote of about $525 for a set of 4 pistons with thermo coating on the piston crowns.  I told the guy I was building the bike for Bonneville and he said he could give me the "jobber" price if I was willing to put a sticker of theirs on each side of my bike.  It brought the base price from $105 a piston to $85 a piston.   :)
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ERC

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Not a bad price.  ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.


ace.cafe

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You will need to work on the specs for how much they weigh.
That is a critical factor in racing pistons, and most basic price quotes on a phone query do not include ANY kind of lightening machine work.
You will need to do some discussions with the maker on the details.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 04:18:31 am by ace.cafe »
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High On Octane

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I believe that price was to included some lightening.  I should have an actual quote in my email today.
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ace.cafe

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I believe that price was to included some lightening.  I should have an actual quote in my email today.

That's an unusually low price.
Better look everything over real close. When it seems to good to be true, it usually is.
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hoffman900

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That's an unusually low price.
Better look everything over real close. When it seems to good to be true, it usually is.

Tom,

I know when I talked to Nick Arias III, he gave me a really great price as well... it was around $180 a piston (plus locks and pins) for a 90mm bore, including rings. That includes lateral gas ports, dual pin oilers, and a coated skirt. Ring pack would be the same size (not sure where they are sourcing them from). Whether they would be as light as my RaceTecs at that price, I'm not sure. They also had a minimum order amount.

Not sure about the Enfields, but part of the reason I went to a custom piston is that all the offerings (JE, Arias, Wiseco is a little newer, but still somewhat dated) are 25yo+ designs. Most of the piston manufacturers do predominately custom work now (they have spinoffs for their off the shelf lines) and are set-up price wise and work wise to do this work. Arias has a bigger presence in the sport compact world now and the domestic stuff.

Cheers,
Bob
« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 02:15:12 pm by hoffman900 »


High On Octane

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That was just what I added in my head from what I remember him saying.  I know didn't add everything he mentioned so maybe it will be considerably more all said and done.
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ace.cafe

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That was just what I added in my head from what I remember him saying.  I know didn't add everything he mentioned so maybe it will be considerably more all said and done.

Just as long as you get good pistons that will work for your application, is the main concern.
I have seen nearly all the major piston companies fail at making Enfield pistons, so perhaps that affects my perceptions.
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High On Octane

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Is there any advantage or disadvantage to swapping out the front end of the Chief onto the Blackhawk?  The Chief has a wider triple tree than the Blackhawk to accommodate for the 16"x3" wheel.  And the main reason I want to swap them is because the nacelle on the Chief is similar to the Thunderbird, where it doesn't have any extra metal for gauges or headlight.  I'd like to swap to this front end because none of my gauges work anyways and it will make it cleaner to just mount an aftermarket tach.  I can find high performance tires to fit both a 16" front and 18" rear.
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ace.cafe

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Wider fork distance is usually stiffer/stronger.
Smaller diameter front wheel by that much difference will probably adversely affect stability/handling.

Best combination would be the larger diameter front wheel on the wider forks.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 12:13:41 am by ace.cafe »
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High On Octane

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The wheels also have different width hubs.  The Chief fork is 1 1/8" wider.  I called a reputable wheel builder in town and it will cost $450 to rebuild the wheel so that is out of the question right now.  I'll be honest, I may or may not do a bit of street racing, but there are some road tracks in the area I'd like to start racing at too.
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High On Octane

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Reply #194 on: November 02, 2014, 11:32:54 am
I greatly regret to inform everyone that I have had to terminate this build.  I have been unsuccessful at landing any side work what-so-ever over the last year.  In fact, the only paint work I've done outside of work in the last year was for my friend's Impreza, and that was trade work to put a new motor in my car.  The fact is, apparently no one but my friends want me to paint their projects.  I've been practically trying to give away my paint jobs, and I guess no one is interested.  I've had probably 20 different people talk to me and say they like my price, and then I never hear from them again.  So I guess me starting my own shop and being successful just isn't in my cards.  The corner of the market I am trying to capture, no one wants to spend their money.  The customers that DO want to spend their money want to give their money to a "reputable" shop that has already been established.

With that being said, I had to inform Ace that basically, I'm a loser and can't afford to pay for the upgrades.  These heads are going to be sold to another Twin owner, so someone out there is going to have the baddest, meanest Enfield Twin ever built.  It just won't be me.

As of now, I am no longer attempting to do any side work, projects, custom jobs, cars or bikes.  It's just not worth the headache and stress trying to outbid the other shops around town just to bust my ass and barely make a dime from the work.

Scottie J
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