[JordanMix]

My May of 1999 Bullet 500 is wet sumping really bad. This problem just started about a week ago. I normally start my bike in my garage with the doors closed out of respect for my neighbors. I did this and I about fell over from all the white/blue smoke coming out the tail pipe, I then went for my ride and noticed a large amount of oil thrown from the duckbill breather tube aimed at my chain. I brushed it off as a one time thing but it has been happening ever since. I have drained my sump several time and have drained anywhere from 250-500 ML of oil from the sump plug.

When I drain the sump not all of it falls out at once quickly. I will remove the plug and about 50 ML will come out within 30 seconds to a minuet. It will take a couple hours for the rest of it to slowly drip out.

I removed the timing case and inspected and blew out all oil flow holes as well as checked the operation of the pumps. They are spinning freely with just finger pressure and my oil pump spindle is in good shape.

Can anyone point me in the right direction; am I missing something obvious here? Other than the wet sumping my bike runs well. Could I have a leaking crankcase oil seal on the timing side? If so has anyone replaced this before? Is it one that can be removed and replaced without splitting the crankcase or do you have to open the engine up?


I did replace my worm nut/gear last summer with the neoprene style but is it possible that this could be causing oil from the timing case to leak into the crankcase? It should also be noted that since i have owned the bike i have had a problem with oil blowing out the breakther tube in excessive amounts. I am not overfilling the bike, i have run it well below the half way mark to see if this still happens. It seems that it will blow oil out untill it runs out of oil, this problem has slightly decreased since my bike has turned into a smoke machine.

[dogbone]

The answer may be as simple as leave the piston at tdc. I had a 441 victor that stated that in the owners manual.
I would recommend a cylinder leak down test. the ring tension is very low,and you may need to re-ring,for the consumption problem.
I'll bet your chain is well oiled   

[JordanMix]

i always leave it at TDC. I thought i may have slipped up the first time i saw the white smoke but it is still happening. I have newer rings (600 miles on them) and great compression so i dont think that is my problem either. I really wish it was as simple as the TDC though.

[cyrusb]

maybe a weak scavenge pump? Or a clogged pickup screen?

[JordanMix]

what is the pickup screen? Is that the long cylindrical screen on the top of the sump drain plug?

[cyrusb]

Theres actually 3 plugs . The main drain has no screen, thats the one directly under the oil tank, the one for the scavenge pump is the one most foreward and closest to the timing cover, and the supply pump screen is the one behind it. Take them both out just for the hell of it. If it is not a clogged screen it can be a weak scavenge pump. It's strange that the amount of oil you drain from your crankcase is around the amount that the timing case holds. Maybe it is draining into the crankcase.

[JordanMix]

cyrusb,

My bike is a 99 and does not have three plugs, just two.

I was thinking that is is comming from the timing case. I am going to run a test tonight. I will full drain the sump and then pour 300 ML of oil down the tappet cover which will go directly to the timing case (right?) If its leaking from the timing case into the sump then i will end up with the same amount of oil in the pan under my sump plug tommorrow morning.

If its nice when i get home this experiment will be delayed one day because i want to go for a ride, even if its short due to my above problem.

By chance does anyone happen to know the universal oil seal number or dimensions for the crank seal on the timing side?

[cyrusb]

Sounds like a good plan.

[JordanMix]

I pulled my sump plug last night after a 20 mile ride and this morning I had about 350ML of oil in the pan and the sump was no longer dripping. I removed the tappet adjustment cover and poured this oil back into the timing case and immediately noticed the slow drip at the sump plug started again. I will check it when I get back home from work and see if I have around 350 ML in the pan under the sump drain plug. If so I’m going to remove the timing case and try to get to the oil seal tonight and get one on order. Anyone replace this crank (timing side) shaft oil seal before? Is there anything I should know or is it pretty self explanatory once you open up the timing case and remove (after indexing) the timing gears and worm nut.

[petefletcher]

Have a look at this.
The article is about performance camshafts but covers the oil seal as well.
Looks like you'll need a special tool to get the crankshaft timing pinion.
While you're in the timing case you might as well replace the crank end oil seal as well.

[JordanMix]

i think you forgot to post the link, either that or my computer is not picking it up but please let me know what it is. I plan on getting in there tonight. I am asuming the special tool you are refering to is to remove the neoprean worn seal/gear... i have removed it in the past without the factory tool.

[JordanMix]

I went at it tonight and everything was going fine until I got to the gear behind the oil pump helical cut drive nut/neoprene seal. I can not get the gear behind this off at all. I am assuming it is backwards threaded (like the drive nut/seal) as in lefty tightly rightly loosey but I am unable to get it to budge. On my bike (May 1999 500 Bullet) the shaft going through it is threaded and on the small gear there is a little keyway that only goes about a quarter of a way through the gear. Can anyone give me some advice on removing this gear? I know a tool is made (PD006ST) but I always thought this was to remove the oil spindle drive nut/seal… does it also have a function to remove the gear behind the seal?

[t120rbullet]

I may be wrong but I believe that it's just held on with a woodruff key and just has to be pulled off straight out with a puller.
CJ

[Eric911]

My 99 500 wet sumped 1 time after storing for 2 months, after a winter purchase. Never happened again. My Dad said the gasket between the cases can leak and cause this problem over a night or two. I rode pretty much every day and never really gave it a chance to leak down again. I know EXACTLY what the chain looked like after kicking her over, and know how much floor-dri costs per pound!

[JordanMix]

i have a new neoprene worm nut and timing side crank seal that should arrive today from CMW. I am going to put them in tonight and hopefully that will take care of it. I filled the timing case up with oil and about the same amount ended up comming out the sump. I removed the timing case, filled the oil tank and no oil leaked out of the sump so i think i am on the right track. I will let you guys know tonight or tommorrow.

I also bought a rectifier/regulator which i am hoping will solve my charging problems. Maybe after tonight it will be smooth sailing for a while (fingers crossed)

[PhilJ]

Whether or this will apply to iron barrels, I don't know.
On my AVL in the mornings checking the oil - there is none on the dip stick. I tried via the compression release kicking the bike through about 15-20 times, then checking the oil. Welp there is was full. Possibly, for those experiencing the wet sumping problem, this may work.
I'm sure no expert on that, but if it works, great!

[JordanMix]

so i have been away on vacation & had a job change so the bike problems have taken the backseat. I did get a chance to replace the timing side crank shaft seal as well as the neoprene/rubber worm nut. To my frustration i am still getting massive amounts of oil in the sump.

i thought of this last night. Is it possible that is the gasket is worn or broken between and around the area where the oil flows from the crankcase to the timing case (the small maybe 2 MM sized holes along the gasket area) would oil flow from the timing case into the sump? I am at my wits end and do not have anyone even remotely close to take the bike to to trouble shoot this. I have reused the gasket maybe 3-4 times. I think i am going to replace it this week to see what happens, i just wanted to get some opinions first.

To recap my problem so you don't have to read through the whole thread. I am getting anywhere from 250-400 ML of oil in my sump area. After a decent length ride i can pull the plug and maybe 100 ML will drain out fast then the rest will drip out. I have let the bike sit over night and let all the oil in the sump drain out (always around 400ML). I have sat and watched it after this to make sure no more is dripping out. I then opened up the tappet cover and poured the oil back down through so it would go directly to the timing case and almost instantly a slow drip would start which would equal about 400 ML by the next day. As i said i replaced the shaft oil seal (correctly installed with the spring facing out), there was no wear or scratches in the shaft. I also replaced the worm nut and the bolt with the shaft that screws into it.

[JordanMix]

so i had some time tonight to have another go at my wet sumping problem, i had thought of this posibility of oil leaking into the sump flow hole on the crankcase gasket suraface and a member of the Yahoo RE group ACE Cafe said that this was possible... it turned out to be true.



the gasket was broken at both oil flow holes allowing oil to flow into
the sump. I don't know how i didn't catch this the few times i had the
timing cover off to trouble shoot my problem. I put a new gasket on,
went for a 20 mile ride, came back and pulled the plug... only about
10-15ML of oil and no drip after that.

[t120rbullet]

One of the reasons I never reuse a gasket.
Glad you got it sorted out.
Now go ride it, you got enough fixing done to it for this year.