[mattsz]

I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on a situation I'm experiencing.

I changed my oil and filter recently, and measured the amount of oil I removed.  I soaked the new filter in fresh oil, installed it, and refilled with the same amount of new oil.  It ended up a little low, as I might expect since there are "losses" from the old filter, residue left in my drain pan, etc.  I added a few more ounces, and got it where I thought it should be, warmed it up and ran it around the block for 10 or so minutes, then parked it and let it rest for a bit.  I topped it up a bit more to where I'm used to seeing it, at about the lower "bar" on the sight-glass.

I took off on a trip the next day, and after about 100 miles, I parked the bike for a meal and found that the sight-glass was "blank" - I had to tilt the bike just a little bit before the oil showed, regardless of how I positioned the bike on what I thought was a level surface.  I couldn't see any signs of a leak or burning of oil.

I had no oil with me, so I started it up and planned to ride it another 20 miles to a proper town that might sell some moto oil.  The bike ran fine, but I did hear a clatter which I've never heard before - not evident at idle, but a louder ticking that started at about (I'm guessing) 2000 rpm.  It worried me.  I stopped at a motorsports shop, and in the lot, right after I shut the engine off, the level was perfectly fine!     I went in and discussed it with the owner, but typically, he didn't have any experience with these engines.  I bought the oil anyway, to carry with me.

I rode down the block, only about 1/4 mile, topped up my fuel tank, and looked at the oil again - nothing in the glass!  WTF?  I ended up adding almost 7 ounces before the oil showed in the glass again.  I started the bike up, and watched as the level rose up above the top of the glass.  I shut it off again and let it rest - it never did come back down, but tilting to left just a little bit showed a top level in the glass, so I'm hoping it wasn't too full.  It still makes that new tick at the mid to high-range rpms... it's very difficult for me to hear since I've reinstalled my windscreen, and the usual helmet noise makes it impossible to hear anything at all once I'm up to speed.

Now, 120 miles and a day later, the bike is parked on the center stand in my parent's garage, looking perfectly level, and the sight-glass is empty again - it takes quite a tilt to the right to show the oil level.  The oil drain plug and oil screen cover are clean and dry, with no other signs of a leak anywhere, and not a drop on the floor.  Nothing like this has happened the other times the oil and filter were changed.

I'm very confused.  Anybody run into this kind of inconsistency in reading oil level?

[NorEaster]

I don't have an answer for you; but if it comforts your sanity at all, I have had a similar experience after my first oil change with my 2014 C5. I noted the level went from ideal to empty to over filled to ideal to empty again.

[gashousegorilla]

  I can get some oil level weirdness as well... Maybe not THAT weird though. At a change, I just put in one quart. The finish it off with the second quart, as I watch the sight glass. I bring the level to about 1/3 up the sight glass and call it good. I wind up with just under two quarts put in.

 Curious Matt, did you ever get a chance to check that inlet oil pump O ring behind the right side cover ?

[Craig McClure]

HELL YES - It's been my major complaint with the UCE engine design. Remember? I whine a lot wishing they had a reliable DIPSTICK to check before riding. The sight glass is lame because it gives conflicting & inconsistent information.
  I've made my efforts to work around the uncertain oil level by using a Synthetic Oil that I don't have to change often. Then, after finding my air filter fouled with oil from the crankcase breather, I lengthened the crank case breather hose, & routed it to the rearmost edge of my rear fender. I changed air filters, & blocked of the breather nipple with a small rubber cane tip.
  None of this made it easier to read the sight glass, but if it gets to full - it blows out the breather hose, & is now "self leveling" that hose is the only place I ever see an oil drip under the bike.

[Sectorsteve]

i think youre worrying more than you need to be but paranoia comes easily sometimes. theres alot to lose if you do something wrong in your bike maintenance etc. I rarely can see my oil and i put this down to level. As in spirit level, level. The bikes just never level. i cannot usually see any oil in the sight glass unless i tilt the bike. Id rather have less oil in than too much, cause it leaks otherwise when you over fill.

[Mr.Mazza]

That's very strange right there.
But, if there is no visible oil leaks, around the engine or the cylinder (Burning it)
Go buy how much oil you physically put into the engine, I mean, it can't magically get more.

[mattsz]

NorEaster - comforts my sanity?  My wife will tell you that ship has sailed!

GHG - your routine is more or less like mine.  Like I said, this is the third oil change, and the second one done in my own garage with the bike parked the same way, so I'm used to seeing the oil level where I see it.

Craig - I knew I'd find you here!    I understand your frustration with the glass, but my version of logic tells me that dipstick or sight-glass tell the same information.  The question becomes, where does each read the oil level?  The glass rests at the perimeter of the sump, so any tilt affects the reading.  Ideally, a dipstick could read the level right in the middle of the sump, so tilt wouldn't matter.  But I imagine that there's lots of engine bits in the way for that, I don't know.

What I'm wondering is, why is the oil level in the right-side engine case varying so much - where the heck is the oil going?  And, why now, after three oil changes?  I did remove the oil filter cover (with the bike on the side stand) to make sure it was seated correctly, but even if it wasn't, that shouldn't affect the level, should it?

Sectorsteve -

i think youre worrying more than you need to be but paranoia comes easily sometimes. theres alot to lose if you do something wrong in your bike maintenance etc.

Kevin says the same thing!   But as you say, the consequences are drastic, and I don't know any other owners or dealers near me to compare notes with.  This is my first RE, and for all intents and purposes, my first bike.  So I'm learning a lot in a short time, about bikes in general and about REs in particular.  If and when "this, too, passes", I'll chock it up to RE experience and move on… to the next crisis!

Mazza35 - I agree… but if I can't rely on the glass, then if I ever do spring a leak sometime or somewhere out on the road, I might not know it.  I still haven't started the bike since the most recent low level indication; I'm very curious to see what happens with the level...

[Roeland]

The best way in my experience to check the oil level is to park the bike on the centre stand - start it up and let it idle for about 5 minutes - open the throttle a couple of times in between. Within minutes the oil will settle in the crankcase and the level should be clearly visible.

[JVS]

The best way in my experience to check the oil level is to park the bike on the centre stand - start it up and let it idle for about 5 minutes - open the throttle a couple of times in between. Within minutes the oil will settle in the crankcase and the level should be clearly visible.

+1 and after a long ride, straight on the center stand etc.

If the level was correct/optimum prior to draining the oil and then if you have re-filled the same amount, it should be perfectly fine (Considering you soaked the new filter in new oil). Then topping it up till the level is between the max/min marks should be good enough. Otherwise you're just over-filling the case. If you're burning the oil, you should notice blue-ish smoke from the exhaust, no? But I'm sure that is not the case with your RE.

Regarding the noise at 2000rpm, that is totally new. As it is a ticking noise from the engine, the previous discussion and comments by GHG on your UCE's push-rods comes to mind. That issue needs to be sorted out as this ticking might be related to that?

[Catbird]

I even get weird/inconsistent oil level readings in the sight glass on my BMW R1200RT and, it too, lacks a dip stick.  My only recourse is to check it frequently.

[GreenMachine]

The Older I get the harder it gets to use a sight glass...Be grateful you have a center stand to assist..I mutter everytime I check my 1100 , as I attempt to center the pig just right while someone looks underneath to check the glass...I see they sell mirrors with a long extension that would assist in a 1 man operation ( What a PIA that would be for someone with a unsteady hand) . The dip stick on my iron is fairly accurate and I try to keep it at the 3/4 mark but it's usually a wee bit higher...I check it every other ride and don't seem to worry about it like I use too...

[ROVERMAN]

Now i am a UCE owner i have also been bit by the SGS  AKA, sight glass silliness.When mine is hot i don't see it in the glass,when cold it is overfilled,also my bike leans to left when on the centre stand! Sooo, i think that, as most have suggested, the best approach is to know what you have in there and if you aren't leaking or belching smoke then let it be. Since my bike leans on the centre stand i just lean it this way and that until i see a level i like. .
Robert & the Green B.

[Tigujan]

I have had exactly the same experience with the oil level and the ticking sound. Take care if you check your oil level, do this on a flat underground so that your bike is standing exactly horizontal. I check my oil level every time before I start riding every time. You will became an expert believe me.
About the ticking sound. This is normal by a Royal Enfield. The new UCE engine has a hydraulic tappet adjusting mechanism. This is the reason why there is the peculiar tick-tack noise for the new engine. The peculiar tick tack noise for the new engine I guess it is something we will have to live with.   
BULLET engine is a over head valve engine, were in the cam shaft is present below and the timing of the piston is trough a rocker arm, due to the opening and closing of the push rod system present in all the Royal Enfield bikes. This "TIck Tack" sound is not a problem at all. This is what the technic IS and makes the nature of our bikes ...and been used by even HARLEY DAVIDSON bikes.
I have tried several type’s of oil in my 500 cc Bullet, to reduce this noise, and up to my personal opinion, the Motul 300V 4T Factory Line 15 W60 has given the best result. The noise has been reduces at least for 50% and is not anymore the “Irritating and prominent sounding tick tack noise” but a nice sounding drummer.

[ROVERMAN]

Tick noise? What tick noise? Mine doesn't, and hasn't, yet ticked. Ticking lifters should not be viewed as normal on the UCE.

[Arizoni]

If I lean the bike to the left at all as I'm dismounting it, when I place it on the center stand the oil level in the sight window is often low.
If I use the sidestand to support the bike before I get off of it and then place the bike on the center stand, the oil level in the sight window is always shows empty.

In fact, this happened a few weeks ago when I went to the local car/bike show.  A guy I was talking to said, "You're out of oil." pointing at the sight window.
I said, "Not to worry but thanks.", and started the engine.
Immediately, the sight window filled up to the correct height.

What's happening here is if the bike is leaned to the left at all with the engine shut down, the oil pours thru a hole in the left side of the crankcase and it ends up in the left sidecover.  When the bike is raised to rest on the center stand, it looks like there is no oil in the sight window.

If this happens, before you panic just start the engine.  The spinning primary drive/clutch etc will splash the extra oil back into the sump and the oil level in the sight window will magically raise to its correct level.

[mattsz]

Tick noise? What tick noise? Mine doesn't, and hasn't, yet ticked. Ticking lifters should not be viewed as normal on the UCE.

Maybe not normal on your UCE.  This has been the point I've tried to make in some other threads.  Twenty people say, "that's normal."  Including the guy who is approving warranty repairs.  A few say it isn't normal. Roverman, your lifters don't tick?  At all? Maybe there is something wrong with your engine? 

I'm mentioning these things, this latest ticking noise and the oil level weirdness, because neither has ever happened on my bike before; both are new since my oil change, and now with 4000 miles on the clock.  So what's normal now?  The way my bike used to operate, or the way it currently operates?

[gashousegorilla]

Tick noise? What tick noise? Mine doesn't, and hasn't, yet ticked. Ticking lifters should not be viewed as normal on the UCE.

  +1........

[JVS]

If I was near Maine back in the states, I would surely arrange a meeting with you to compare our bike sounds etc, I ride your B5 and you ride my B5. From what I've read and seen in the video clips, there is surely something going on with the inconsistent ticking.

If possible, arrange a meet-up with a fellow member at your dealer and try to compare the differences etc in front of the warranty repairs person. It's very hard to say what's happening to the bike when one can't access it. (Like me  ) You have a lot of patience...You have to go for that one last major step to get this taken care of once and for all. But that requires the support of your warranty repairs/dealer, who are quite far for you unfortunately.

[mattsz]

Thanks JVS!  Keep in mind that the valve train ticking I hear now isn't in any of the video clips I've posted - it's different than the cold-condition clatter from the other threads... a new noise since my last oil change.  I've got 150 "don't worry, just ride it" miles to get home tomorrow; two weeks from now I plan to take it to the dealer in NH who is happy to listen and check things out, and also to compare it to the couple of running demos they have on hand.  I'll trailer it down so I can demonstrate the cold clatter, and also get it warmed up to show how it disappears.  I'll also point out the new ticking if it's still audible.

It's a pain, but it won't kill me, and for my own peace of mind, I don't really feel like I have any other choice.  I like my bike; I want it to run well, and run properly, for a long time.  I also want to learn as much as I can about how it works and what keeps it happy.  I'm not afraid to dig into it, but not while it's under warranty, so I'll seek professional help - even if there's a chance the powers that be will determine there's nothing "warrantable" wrong...

[Catbird]

How about this...?

Yesterday afternoon, when I returned home from a ride, I parked the RE on the sidestand in my garage.  A few hours later, I put it on its centerstand (w/out starting it up).  To give the level a chance to settle, a look at the
sight window a couple of hours later showed absolutely no sign of oil.  When I checked it again this morning there was no change - no oil.  I started it up and let it idle for no more than a minute, shut it down and waited 30 minutes or so.  When I checked the sight window, the oil level was completely full all the way to the very top of the window.

Any logic to this?

[gashousegorilla]

 And this is all on the side stand , and not the center stand ?   Also makes you wonder with all this, is if not a dipstick..... and with the very good EFI system they invested in.   Why they didn't put in a low oil light and sender ?  But I guess they are just relying on the temp sensor to shut the bike down.....

[Dazzler]

I have noticed 'irregularities' when checking the sight glass also.  It would appear that a multitude of factors are at play determining the level on show at any particular time.  Bottom line is if the correct amount of oil has been added at oil change time, there have been no leaks and the thing is not billowing clouds of smoke,  then regardless of the sight glass the oil is in there and doing it's job.  As the saying goes, " keep calm and carry on."

Das

[ROVERMAN]

Mattsz, what i meant by lifter noise not being normal is simply this. These engines are supposed to be up to the minute technology, hydraulic lifters should not clatter,tick,or anything else. If they do for more than a few seconds then there is a problem, as i said, abnormal. Good luck with the dealer in NH, i hope he can correctly diagnose this for you. Ride safe.
Roverman.

[barenekd]

How about this...?

Yesterday afternoon, when I returned home from a ride, I parked the RE on the sidestand in my garage.  A few hours later, I put it on its centerstand (w/out starting it up).  To give the level a chance to settle, a look at the
sight window a couple of hours later showed absolutely no sign of oil.  When I checked it again this morning there was no change - no oil.  I started it up and let it idle for no more than a minute, shut it down and waited 30 minutes or so.  When I checked the sight window, the oil level was completely full all the way to the very top of the window.

Any logic to this?

Here's the trick. Read the manual. It contains very explicit instructions on how to, or when to check your oil. Do not check it at any other time! When you get home from a ride, park the bike on the centerstand in the place and direction! This is important because it takes very little change in the sitting angle to change the reading. take your gear off, then look at the oil window. the oil should be between the lines. Adjust the level immediately if it needs it. If you come back an hour later the level will be different. That's the nature of the animal. Just accept it and don't worry so much!
Bare

[Catbird]

Here's the trick. Read the manual. It contains very explicit instructions on how to, or when to check your oil...

Page 03-13 of the Service Manual.

[tooseevee]

And this is all on the side stand , and not the center stand ? 

          No. He (Catbird) says he put it on the centerstand.

          I've read SO much about this sight glass problem. Why did they do away with the dipstick? I just don't get it.

[Craig McClure]

          No. He (Catbird) says he put it on the centerstand.

          I've read SO much about this sight glass problem. Why did they do away with the dipstick? I just don't get it.

I'm guessing they didn't have a straight shot at the sump from the filler cap.  They might be able to arrange a Dipstick made from flexible cable with a solid alloy tip-like my Japanese Cars, & I wish they would - I'D BUY IT!

[barenekd]

A dipstick would give you the same weird readings if it were attached to the filler cap!
Bare

[DanKearney]

I'll also agree with the statements made earlier in this thread about shutting the bike down on the center stand, side stand, etc. causing oil to flow down into the case differently.  On a 750 mile trip I took a couple of weeks ago, I wanted to check the oil more frequently and again discovered that the sight glass level was not consistent.

I then started doing this:  At each stop we made, I parked the bike on the center stand at a level spot.  I waited a few minutes and then pumped the kick starter a half dozen times with the ignition off.  I then waited a few more minutes and checked the sight glass.  After doing it this way, I now get a consistent level every time.

I can only guess that pumping the kick starter forces the oil to flow for a bit so none is trapped in the system anywhere.  Maybe?

Cheers,

Dan K.

[Royalista]

Pumping the kicker indeed throws oil around. Which is why you do this before starting on a cold morning.
Given a level surface and motor on center stand the readout of the lens is reliable and consistent. The level at a glance: I find it easier than a dipstick. 

[Arizoni]

I thought I mentioned this before but if the bike is leaned to the left before putting it on the center stand, oil drains from the oil sump into the left hand side cover.

This happens even with just a little bit of lean but if the sidestand is first used it really happens.
Once the oil is in the left side cover it cannot return to the sump by just sitting the bike back on the center stand.

Starting the engine or even just kicking it over with the kick starter a number of times will pump the oil out of the left sidecover back into the oil sump so it will show up in the sight window at the correct level.

Even if the engine had a dip stick instead of a sight guage, this changing oil level thing  would happen.  It's due to the way the engine cases communicate.

[Ducati Scotty]

Pumping the kicker indeed throws oil around. Which is why you do this before starting on a cold morning.
Given a level surface and motor on center stand the readout of the lens is reliable and consistent. The level at a glance: I find it easier than a dipstick. 

+1.  Just park it on a level surface on the centerstand and check it a few minutes later.

Scott

[mattsz]

Well, the reason I started this in the first place isn't because I don't know how to check the oil level.  It's because all of the simple advice given here about checking the level, tilting to affect what shows in the glass, etc, made perfect sense and worked perfectly and consistently - until my most recent oil change.  Now, I never know what it's going to show.  Like I said before - ride it, park it level, let it rest a few minutes and it reads fine.  Start it, ride it a couple of blocks (not even any turns to lean into), park it level, let it rest a few minutes and... nothing in the glass.  I guess it'll have to remain a mystery.  As for the new "tappet" noise, I hope to get a new video of it soon, and I plan to get it to a dealer when I can...

[DanKearney]

I don't know if this has been posted before, so please forgive me the redundancy if it has.  Here is a diagrammatic explanation of the oil flow inside the 500cc UCE motor:

http://www.slideshare.net/classicmw/royal-enfield-uce-lubrication

I don't have the patience to read through it in detail, but maybe it can shed some light on where all the oil is going?

Cheers,

Dan K.

[Craig McClure]

Well, the reason I started this in the first place isn't because I don't know how to check the oil level.  It's because all of the simple advice given here about checking the level, tilting to affect what shows in the glass, etc, made perfect sense and worked perfectly and consistently - until my most recent oil change.  Now, I never know what it's going to show.  Like I said before - ride it, park it level, let it rest a few minutes and it reads fine.  Start it, ride it a couple of blocks (not even any turns to lean into), park it level, let it rest a few minutes and... nothing in the glass.  I guess it'll have to remain a mystery.  As for the new "tappet" noise, I hope to get a new video of it soon, and I plan to get it to a dealer when I can...

**If you've tried everything, & there is consistently no oil in the sight glass, & you are hearing MORE upper end noise, this suggests that you are low on oil.
  Another of MY problems with the system is, that I'm old, with old knees, & need to use the side stand to mount & dismount the bike, thereby tilting left, when I shut down, to put it inside. This effects my visible oil level
The lengthened breather hose to the rear of my bike, will allow any unneeded oil to escape, with out fouling my air filter or risking to low an oil level. I have had less worry about the oil level since installing.

[Ducati Scotty]

Well, the reason I started this in the first place isn't because I don't know how to check the oil level.  It's because all of the simple advice given here about checking the level, tilting to affect what shows in the glass, etc, made perfect sense and worked perfectly and consistently - until my most recent oil change.  Now, I never know what it's going to show.  Like I said before - ride it, park it level, let it rest a few minutes and it reads fine.  Start it, ride it a couple of blocks (not even any turns to lean into), park it level, let it rest a few minutes and... nothing in the glass.  I guess it'll have to remain a mystery.  As for the new "tappet" noise, I hope to get a new video of it soon, and I plan to get it to a dealer when I can...

The oil has to settle in the sump for you to read it correctly.  To do this, you either have to leave it on the center stand for a really, really long time or get it HOT. 

If you leave it on the center stand over night that's probably good enough, unless it's winter cold.

Now, about getting it hot...
Not warm, not "I think it's hot now", really HOT so it flows like water.  A 10 minute ride won't do it.  You need to ride 20-30 minutes to really get the oil hot and flowing.  If you go out for 10 minutes you just make problems for yourself.  Not only is the oil still not hot enough to flow easily, but now it's all spread out in the engine instead of in the sump.  It's going to take a long time to settle from here.  You probably don't realize the engine is not hot because it runs just fine, but that's your EFI doing its job.  My ride to work is 11 miles/25 minutes and about half or more on the freeway.  The bike is just about warmed up then.

Scott

[Roeland]

That could be a dangerous theory if you really don't have oil in your engine and take it for a 20 - 30 minute ride to check the oil level?

[JVS]

The lifters would scream out loud once the bike is started, if the engine is deprived of oil (Low) So you wouldn't take the bike out for 10 secs, let alone 20 mins 

If I remember correctly, Arizoni mentioned in some other topic regarding the low level indicator of the sight-glass most likely takes into account a bit of safety-measure. The minimum oil level required for the engine to keep going is probably a bit less than what the minimum indicator next to the sight glass shows. The engineers surely must've considered that. But of course, it's not a bright idea to run low anyways 

[LJB]

Royal Enfield Classic 350 UCE Jan. 2020 Australia. Oil level check.
Ride the bike until the engine is hot. Return to your garage/workshop/driveway or anywhere else that the ground is flat. Put the bike up on its center stand. Do nothing for 3 or 4 minutes. Start the bike without touching the throttle. Let it run for the count of 8. Switch off the engine. Check the sight glass; you should see the oil level slowly rise. This may take some time. If it doesn't then repeat the previous. i.e. go round the block again, blah, blah, blah. I try to get the oil level just underneath the top mark in the sight glass. This seems to help reduce vibration. I change the oil every 2,000 kilometers and use full synthetic.

[tooseevee]

A dipstick would give you the same weird readings if it were attached to the filler cap!
Bare

      Yes, it does (did). My '08 AVL has (had) all the weirdness that you guys with sight glass bikes have. Once I got rid of all the catch can plumbing & learned how to check the oil from guys who had long-time experience with the engines prior to the AVL (& WITH the AVL), I had no problems at all. And I get almost zero oil in my new crankcase breather "catch can".

      Once you guys figure out the way your engine wants its oil checked, IT will be happy & YOU will be happy.