Author Topic: Poor man's suspension upgrade  (Read 23192 times)

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JVS

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on: September 11, 2013, 07:18:09 am
Hello everyone!

Hope you're all doing well. After a long time, I have finally upgraded my Bullet's rear suspension to what I had wanted since I purchased the bike. My primary motivation was the looks/cosmetic side of things. I wanted the original 1950s Bullet look, with the springs in full shrouds - black and stainless/chrome look.

Firstly, these are not Hagons, hence the topic title. I had wanted Hagons so badly since I saw Scotty's thread regarding them and reading other people's reviews about them. I was literally |--| this close to buying them from Dave Quinn. However, Dave was not confident sending 16kg springs with soft/medium damping all the way to Australia as it would be a lot of time waste sending springs back and forth across multiple continents if they didn't suit me. They were also cheaper to buy from the US, including postage. It came around to be around $350. Dave recommended that I purchase the shocks from the Australian Hagon dealer, who is selling them for $330..plus postage. Now, I was kind of reluctant to spend so much dough on a set of shocks. Keep in mind that I absolutely love Hagons, and have nothing against them. I was almost about to buy them.

Secondly, after giving up on getting the shocks, I was looking up suspension sets for REs on Ebay in my free time. All in hope of finding some full shrouded 320mm springs. On the 7th or 8th page of the search query on Ebay, I stumbled upon these - http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Classic-Triumph-BSA-British-Bike-shocks-12-5-320mm-1960s-70s-80s-/321195457719?ssPageName=ADME%3AL%3AOU%3AAU%3A3160&nma=true&si=Q4X9%252Ff5%252FOMmozyzB4ciC8zSKj6A%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

They are made by a wholeseller back in England http://www.tecbikeparts.com/ But they also have a distributor here in Australia, albeit in another state. These shocks have 5 pre-load settings and are progressive. Also, people upgrade to modern type gas-filled springs, but in this case, these are oil-based. So all in all, I purchased these for AUD $65, asked the seller to bush them with 10mm bushings. Bought on Saturday, and got them today  ;D

They arrived nicely packed -



Good quality on the finish -



Lets do this!

But in my excitement I realised that I can't remove the stock spring bolts without removing the rear mudguard due to its mounting bars. I think you don't need to remove the fender, but can just loosen the lower mounting brackets and shift it up to remove the bolts. But in order to make it easier for myself, I just removed it. And to remove the mudguard/fender, we have to remove the seat -



Out with the old -



And in with the new. No problems whatsoever with the bushings. Fit perfectly. -





Looking sexy!

Assembled everything back and took it out for a spin. This is how they look on the Bullet now -















As far as riding goes. These are around 18kg/cm as the supplier does not stock 16kg/cm. They are on the softest preload setting and as I went for a short ride, I took a route with quite a number of speedhumps/bumps, some irregular road surfaces etc and can easily say that they are an improvement over the stockies. They might be oil based, but they are softer than the OEMs, although they are still a bit hard on the bumps, but no way near the OEMs. As they are progressive, I noticed the ride was way smoother than before, and I actually liked the riding experience. It was quite comfortable. I am very happy. For $65, they are awesome.

All I need to do now is to replace the front-fork oil within the next couple of weeks and it should run like a charm. Then just change the tail-light to 1960s style, and wait for the tyres to wear out...then I get me some K70s. Bullet complete!

Thanks for reading  ;)

P.S. Thanks to Ducati Scotty for his Hagon thread, and fellow members for contributing useful information all over the forum, through posts and PMs.

« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 02:36:49 pm by JVS »
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Bulletman

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Reply #1 on: September 11, 2013, 07:40:36 am
Nice Job JVS..looks nice..
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wildbill

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Reply #2 on: September 11, 2013, 08:43:37 am
old skool indeed-wouldn't mind trying them myself.  jvs - total price including postage


JVS

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Reply #3 on: September 11, 2013, 08:50:42 am
Thanks guys!

@wildbill
Total cost incl. postage was $81 from Brisbane to Sydney.
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BRADEY

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Reply #4 on: September 11, 2013, 12:05:39 pm
That looks very period !


ace.cafe

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Reply #5 on: September 11, 2013, 12:38:38 pm
I agree. Very vintage looking appearance.
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DanKearney

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Reply #6 on: September 11, 2013, 03:06:08 pm
Those are the perfect style for the bike.  Nice find.

Cheers,

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High On Octane

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Reply #7 on: September 11, 2013, 03:18:11 pm
I'm glad you like them.  I've been eye balling them myself as they look identical to the original shocks on the Blackhawk that are completely worn out.  Now that someone has actually verified that they are a good shock I think I might be buying a set as well.  Thanks for sharing!

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Ducati Scotty

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Reply #8 on: September 11, 2013, 04:19:08 pm
Those really look great on the B5, super clean!

Scott


barenekd

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Reply #9 on: September 11, 2013, 08:48:10 pm
Looking great! Just like Girlings! Get the fork oil changed, you won't believe the difference!
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Royalista

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Reply #10 on: September 11, 2013, 09:37:48 pm
Well documented report, and good looking indeed. Excellent  8)

Just a question, if you don't mind. How does the muffler compensate for the lack of a heatshield?
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crush02342002

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Reply #11 on: September 12, 2013, 03:04:55 am
looks good! im kinda partial to the open springs myself though but those shocks look perfect on your bike. Good job


ace.cafe

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Reply #12 on: September 12, 2013, 03:18:06 am
From an aerodynamic drag perspective, the shrouded shocks present less air drag than the chaotic and turbulent air flow thru the open springs.
Not that it makes a huge difference in overall drag, but it's something.
Little things can add up.
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JVS

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Reply #13 on: September 12, 2013, 04:57:23 am
Really appreciate your comments, people. I am glad that you all like it as much as I do.  :D

How does the muffler compensate for the lack of a heatshield?

The muffler by itself? It's doing well. Of course it gets very, very hot, but most of the English chrome on the unit is holding well as you can see in the photos. If you look carefully (last pic and 4th last pic), you will notice that I do have a heatshield covering the header pipe to silencer connection. It is the 30cm heatshield that I got from Hitchcocks UK  :)
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Tri750

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Reply #14 on: September 12, 2013, 04:58:51 am
Most likely, they are made by EMGO. Taiwanese copies of the Girlings used on Brit bikes. Nothing wrong with them at all, but lighter riders will find them a bit stiff stiffley sprung. Good find.
I have a set in my cabinet for some future project once I find it. They were on sale so I grabbed them up.
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Reply #15 on: September 12, 2013, 05:12:04 pm
Most likely, they are made by EMGO. Taiwanese copies of the Girlings used on Brit bikes. Nothing wrong with them at all, but lighter riders will find them a bit stiff stiffley sprung. Good find.
I have a set in my cabinet for some future project once I find it. They were on sale so I grabbed them up.
You have been missing in action for a while Al..go to hear back again from you... :)
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barenekd

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Reply #16 on: September 12, 2013, 05:58:40 pm
Quote
Just a question, if you don't mind. How does the muffler compensate for the lack of a heatshield?

Don't quite understand the question. It looks like a standard EFI muffer with the heat shield where it need to be, ahead of the footpeg. How is the muffler supposed to compensate for a heat shield? The heat shield is for you, not the muffler.
However the stock bazooka does get very hot and the heat shield on it covers the massive bluing that can occur on them. The EFI's don't get that hot, although they can get a nice yellow tinge.
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squire

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Reply #17 on: September 12, 2013, 09:32:52 pm
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 10:41:12 pm by squire »


Royalista

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Reply #18 on: September 12, 2013, 10:11:22 pm
The muffler by itself? It's doing well. Of course it gets very, very hot, but most of the English chrome on the unit is holding well as you can see in the photos. If you look carefully (last pic and 4th last pic), you will notice that I do have a heatshield covering the header pipe to silencer connection. It is the 30cm heatshield that I got from Hitchcocks UK  :)

It looked as if there was none but once I knew where to look I found the short piece under rider's footpeg.
Going over the pictures for the second time I have to say the bike looks way much better with the new shocks. It should come with these, the difference is really huge.  8)
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Reply #19 on: September 12, 2013, 10:25:46 pm
+1, looks like it just belongs that way.


JVS

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Reply #20 on: September 13, 2013, 01:18:25 am
They say they only ship within Aussie!! I wonder if they are the same as these look-alike shocks from India?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUSPENSION-REAR-SHOCK-ABSORBERS-BSA-TRIUMPH-NORTON-MATCHLESS-AJS-ROYAL-ENFIELD-/181151680851?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a2d7b4953&vxp=mtr#ht_1788wt_917

squire,

Although they look the same, and the Indian seller probably has got it from Tecbikeparts or another source himself/herself and is selling it at a higher price. Plus, they are 13'' shocks and our stock ones are 12.6'' or 320mm.

I would recommend that if you want to get these, get them directly from http://www.tecbikeparts.com/HOW_TO_ORDER.html They most likely ship to USA as well, perhaps with proper item tracking etc. It is safe to get it directly from them. Remember 320mm/12.5'' with 10mm bushings.
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squire

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Reply #21 on: September 13, 2013, 01:30:07 am
Thanks JVS, I'm going to order a set.


mattsz

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Reply #22 on: September 13, 2013, 02:01:31 am
I didn't know about any other options when I bought my Hagons...

Looks great, JVS!  That's the look I was after, but I couldn't justify the cost of both top and bottom covers on the Hagons.  As it is, I chose the shiny top covers and black springs.  The springs rub against the insides of the covers and squeak every time I shift my weight - don't hear it while riding, of course, but when I saddle up before starting... it's not very impressive.  AND the ride doesn't feel any different than the OEM shocks.  AND, I broke the swing arm bolt while changing them...  :-[




squire

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Reply #23 on: September 13, 2013, 02:47:48 am
squire,

Although they look the same, and the Indian seller probably has got it from Tecbikeparts or another source himself/herself and is selling it at a higher price. Plus, they are 13'' shocks and our stock ones are 12.6'' or 320mm.

I would recommend that if you want to get these, get them directly from http://www.tecbikeparts.com/HOW_TO_ORDER.html They most likely ship to USA as well, perhaps with proper item tracking etc. It is safe to get it directly from them. Remember 320mm/12.5'' with 10mm bushings.

Just measured mine and they are 12-7/8" centre to centre installed on the bike. I have a C5, I wonder if they are a different length shock than your G5.


JVS

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Reply #24 on: September 13, 2013, 04:00:15 am
The springs rub against the insides of the covers and squeak every time I shift my weight - don't hear it while riding, of course, but when I saddle up before starting... it's not very impressive.  AND the ride doesn't feel any different than the OEM shocks.  AND, I broke the swing arm bolt while changing them...  :-[

Matt

Sometimes..we have to compromise. Trial and error works in some cases I guess. I didn't know of any other options either, just luckily stumbled upon these shocks. When I first took the bike off the centerstand after installing the new shocks, I just did a dummy check of the suspension. I also heard these shrouds rubbing against each other from within. So I just moved/rotated the shrouds by hand a bit and adjusted to give an equal gap around the circumference. No more squeaking. Even these shocks are a bit stiff, but for an average weight rider, they should be an improvement over the stock ones. I chose these because of the looks plus acceptable riding comfort. Hagons are top of the line stuff, and I think with the correct damping and spring rates, the Hagons work wonders. But I haven't had the chance to try them  :-\

Just measured mine and they are 12-7/8" centre to centre installed on the bike. I have a C5, I wonder if they are a different length shock than your G5.

squire

All the stock shocks should be the same across all three models, C5, G5 and B5. The length is approximately 320mm, so with the new 12.5'' shocks, you'll be good to go. 13'' will be a bit too much. My stock shocks were also around the 12.7'' mark but these new ones fit perfectly.
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mattsz

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Reply #25 on: September 13, 2013, 10:33:14 am
I also heard these shrouds rubbing against each other from within. So I just moved/rotated the shrouds by hand a bit and adjusted to give an equal gap around the circumference. No more squeaking.

Yeah, I am able to do this as well, but the rubbing always returns.  Seems odd that this rubbing would be SOP - we generally try to avoid metal against metal rubbing of parts.  I know the Hagons are good; I'm hoping that the better shocks are providing me a safer ride even if I don't notice a difference in the comfort...


JVS

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Reply #26 on: September 13, 2013, 01:27:07 pm
Yeah, I am able to do this as well, but the rubbing always returns.  Seems odd that this rubbing would be SOP - we generally try to avoid metal against metal rubbing of parts.  I know the Hagons are good; I'm hoping that the better shocks are providing me a safer ride even if I don't notice a difference in the comfort...

Hmm, maybe Scotty can elaborate on this..

I'm not sure how bad the scuffing is on your springs, but most likely you are okay as far as safety goes. Unless there are some major visible stress points on the springs as a result of the scuffing. Keep riding and don't think too much about it.  :)
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Craig McClure

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Reply #27 on: September 13, 2013, 02:54:11 pm
GOOD FOR YOU, NO NEED TO HAND OUT $$$.  I had purchased a very nice pair of 12" chrome plated India made, oil filled shocks, for $100.from Cycle Solutions LLC on Ebay. I think HAGONS are overpriced for what you get.  I wanted something that would function as well as my old GIRLINGS did, So I am very pleased with these Shocks. WAY better than Stock!
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Reply #28 on: September 13, 2013, 04:10:41 pm
The covers are going to rub on a fully enclosed shock too, you just don't see it.   The rubbing isn't going to be significant enough to weaken the springs or cause stress cracks in the shocks' lifetime, the hydraulic valving and seals will be worn out inside long before that ever happened, or your grandchildren will be riding it.  You might eventually wear through the chrome, but again, that isn't weakening the spring or causing stress cracks.  Don't sweat such minutia 'cause if your spring breaks it was a bad spring or you're way too fat.  It just bloody isn't going to happen from rubbing the cover.
I like the open spring look better on most bikes anyway.
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wildbill

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Reply #29 on: September 14, 2013, 02:09:51 pm
jvs
i have placed a bid on those ebay shocks. will be keen to see how it goes


JVS

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Reply #30 on: September 14, 2013, 02:20:38 pm
@wildbill

Good stuff. Let me know if you have any issues during installation. Would be good to have your opinion on these oil based shocks and Hagons.
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wildbill

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Reply #31 on: September 18, 2013, 10:44:09 am
mine arrived today and 45 minutes later fitted. plan to try them out tomorrow






High On Octane

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Reply #32 on: September 18, 2013, 01:04:52 pm
Sweet!  Now I want to order new shocks.   LOL

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JVS

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Reply #33 on: September 18, 2013, 01:08:58 pm
They do look nice, don't they? I hope wildbill finds the ride comfortable and as good as they look, lol.
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Reply #34 on: September 18, 2013, 01:21:38 pm
I really need rear shocks (and to rebuild the forks) and I sure don't have $300 to blow on a set of Hagons, at least right now I don't.  Even if they're half as nice as the Hagons they will be worth the price.  And if my memory serves me correctly not everyone on this forum who has installed Hagons were completely happy with them.

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Ducati Scotty

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Reply #35 on: September 18, 2013, 09:00:08 pm
The springs rub against the insides of the covers and squeak every time I shift my weight - don't hear it while riding, of course, but when I saddle up before starting... it's not very impressive.  AND the ride doesn't feel any different than the OEM shocks.  AND, I broke the swing arm bolt while changing them...  :-[

Matt, do you have the full coverage shrouds, top and bottom?  Sometimes they rub each other internally and cause a scraping noise.  To combat that, you can get some very thin plastic sheeting and glue it to the inside of the top shroud.  Then the lower shroud rubs on that instead of the upper shroud and there's hardly any noise.

Scott


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Reply #36 on: September 18, 2013, 11:51:30 pm
Scott - just the top shroud.  I wanted to get both; I really like the look.  But it was just too pricey.  There's some play in getting the covers centered on the spring, and I can rotate and shuffle the covers so the rubbing stops, but under normal use they quickly return to "rubbing posture".  Sounds naughty.

No reason, I guess, that lining the inside of the top cover wouldn't ease the noise in my case as well...


Ducati Scotty

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Reply #37 on: September 18, 2013, 11:54:52 pm
My thoughts too, a liner would quiet the spring squeak against the shroud just as well.  It's a small thing, but it just makes your bike feel so much better.  Look for a plastic file folder or something like that, thin and slippery. 

Scott


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Reply #38 on: September 19, 2013, 01:02:22 am
I looked through some progressive shocks to see if anything would fit but they don't give much specs on them. even went to their website to get more info and just gave up...

is it just me or is the stock suspension stiff as hell?


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Reply #39 on: September 19, 2013, 01:27:09 am
I really need rear shocks (and to rebuild the forks) and I sure don't have $300 to blow on a set of Hagons, at least right now I don't.  Even if they're half as nice as the Hagons they will be worth the price.  And if my memory serves me correctly not everyone on this forum who has installed Hagons were completely happy with them.

Scottie

Wish you'd said that yesterday.  I'd have taken my Hagons off and sent them to you for the cost of shipping.  I let them go with the bike since insurance is covering them as accessories.
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High On Octane

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Reply #40 on: September 19, 2013, 04:06:46 am
Wish you'd said that yesterday.  I'd have taken my Hagons off and sent them to you for the cost of shipping.  I let them go with the bike since insurance is covering them as accessories.
Dennis

BIG    :(

Well, what are you waiting for?!  Go chase your bike down and get them back!    ;D

Scottie
« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 04:09:56 am by Scottie J »
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Reply #41 on: September 26, 2013, 12:21:14 pm
Hey JVS I just gotta say a big thank you! I got my shockers today and put them on and wow the back  feels much more planted and the ride much smoother. So thanks man. They're great. I'm not posting any pics until I fix my indicator coz I'm ashamed but that should be soon . Cheers D.
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JVS

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Reply #42 on: September 27, 2013, 12:25:09 am
Hey Dave,

No worries! I'm glad that you find these shocks an improvement over the OEMs. Well done. Post pics soon and ride safe  :D
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Sectorsteve

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Reply #43 on: September 29, 2013, 10:57:14 pm
hey matey. are you still digging the shocks?
ive enquired about getting some myself. love the sound of hagons, but i figure for the $80 you cant go wrong - especially if they are a noticeable improvement on the OEM's


squire

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Reply #44 on: September 29, 2013, 11:26:15 pm
I'm in Canada and would really like a pair of these shocks but haven't been able to find anyone who will ship a pair to me. Does anyone know if the Indian knock offs are a decent shock and if there's a supplier I can depend on. TIA


Sectorsteve

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Reply #45 on: September 30, 2013, 12:10:40 am
WWW.TECBIKEPARTS.COM they have distributors in the UK and USA, probably elsewhere too.
Ive got 45 min to go to the end of my auction on ebay. so far up to $40. These ones were a demo model so a bit cheaper, but i want spring look and its all he had left. getting pretty excited and too old to ride around for too much longer on the OEMS


JVS

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Reply #46 on: September 30, 2013, 09:48:50 am
I'm loving these shocks. Can't comment for other users of course. But they were worth the $80 for me.

@squire

Did you try contacting Techbikeparts.com directly? Regarding the Ebay ones from India - If you are willing to take a risk, then go for it  :-\ I asked the seller whether they are local made and whether they are oil-based etc..the guy only said, "they are local made in India". Plus they are almost 13'' which will increase your ride height a fair bit. Then again, it is up to you.
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Sectorsteve

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Reply #47 on: September 30, 2013, 11:39:21 am
I won my eBay bid. Paid 58 bucks including postage!
They should be here any day.


JVS

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Reply #48 on: September 30, 2013, 12:17:17 pm
I won my eBay bid. Paid 58 bucks including postage!
They should be here any day.

Good deal. Hopefully they'll be an improvement over the stock ones.  :)
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High On Octane

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Reply #49 on: September 30, 2013, 02:31:31 pm
I won my eBay bid. Paid 58 bucks including postage!
They should be here any day.


SCORE!!!
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AussieDave

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Reply #50 on: September 30, 2013, 03:24:19 pm
Hey Steve howsitgoin - yeah the shocks are a great improvement on the stock items. I've been riding the last few days two up with my daughter coz its school holidays and the ride is noticeably smoother and at the same time more solid. Well worth the money. My package from hitchcocks arrived this morning so me and the girl spent the day wiring indicators and bolting up the exhaust pipe. Gonna try it out in the morning iwas tempted to fire it up tonight but by the time we were done it was getting late and I am a little concerned about the volume and the neighbours.all the new gear looks great though . May have to post a pic tomorrow -my daughter makes a great assistant. I had a constant supply of chocolate teddy bears and milk! :)
"Glorious,stirring sight! The poetry of motion! The real way to travel! The only way to travel! ... O bliss ! O poop poop ! Oh my! Oh my!" - Toad of Toad Hall.


AussieDave

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Reply #51 on: September 30, 2013, 03:28:33 pm
Congrats on your score! Good price too .
"Glorious,stirring sight! The poetry of motion! The real way to travel! The only way to travel! ... O bliss ! O poop poop ! Oh my! Oh my!" - Toad of Toad Hall.


D the D

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Reply #52 on: September 30, 2013, 08:42:00 pm
-my daughter makes a great assistant. I had a constant supply of chocolate teddy bears and milk! :)

Man, that's great! I wish I could take my girl back about 20 years. Not that I don't love her now, but she was so sweet and didn't like boys yet.
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squire

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Reply #53 on: September 30, 2013, 09:16:31 pm
I won my eBay bid. Paid 58 bucks including postage!
They should be here any day.
Wow!! Good for you. I'm still waiting to here back from the UK whether they will send me a pair of Tecs or not. Seems they're made by Emgo to Tecs specs from what I've read on some Triumph forums.


D the D

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Reply #54 on: September 30, 2013, 10:09:19 pm
Wow!! Good for you. I'm still waiting to here back from the UK whether they will send me a pair of Tecs or not. Seems they're made by Emgo to Tecs specs from what I've read on some Triumph forums.

Maybe one of the guys can give you all the numbers off theirs so you can try to cross to an EMGO unit?
'07 Iron Barrel Military (Deceased 14 September, 2013)
2014 Yamaha Bolt R Spec V-Twin
1975 XLCH


AussieDave

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Reply #55 on: October 01, 2013, 02:17:00 am
I've looked but there ain't a part number in sight! Just lovely black and chrome tubes. And I already chucked the box n stuff. If of you guys can't get these sent I will be happy to buy a few sets and mail them on. Of course you will have to promise me your first born child...
"Glorious,stirring sight! The poetry of motion! The real way to travel! The only way to travel! ... O bliss ! O poop poop ! Oh my! Oh my!" - Toad of Toad Hall.


squire

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Reply #56 on: October 01, 2013, 03:40:28 am
At my age (73) my first born is long gone, but still costing me money. I sent email off to the Tec UK and US suppliers today along with some eBay suppliers but for some reason not too many people seem interested, maybe too much trouble to ship. That seemed to be the case with the Aussie supplier I exchanged email with but never to hear from him again. I'd be happy to reimburse you all costs if you could find it in you to ship some off to me.


wildbill

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Reply #57 on: October 01, 2013, 04:23:24 am
squire
if you want i will do the right thing and buy them for you and post them across. just pay me by paypal
never know maybe one day - you might do the same for me


AussieDave

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Reply #58 on: October 01, 2013, 04:52:28 am
No worries squire - pm me some details. Mine cost 90 $ by express post.
"Glorious,stirring sight! The poetry of motion! The real way to travel! The only way to travel! ... O bliss ! O poop poop ! Oh my! Oh my!" - Toad of Toad Hall.


Sectorsteve

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Reply #59 on: October 01, 2013, 12:33:00 pm
Hey Aussie Dave. Sounds like great time well spent with your daughter! Very cool . Did you get The shocks fom tecbikeparts?
Mine are the girling style ones - still yet to arrive but they are the spring look - which I like.
With new brake pads coming, the exhaust on all nice and quiet, all to do now is throw these shocks on and sort this fork oil out. It never ends though does it! It's so fun. When only about half way through the week and I've clocked up over 700kms this week so far. It'll be 1000 by weeks end easily. Oil change tomorrow I reckon. Thank god for this forum and hitchcocks.:)