Author Topic: normal running engine noise  (Read 7638 times)

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donkey

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on: June 13, 2008, 08:57:58 am
well, I have been welcome to he world fabulous engines noise paranoicals...
For 2000 miles I was in break-in period, driving slow at 30/40 mph and littles sprints at 50 mph when I was passed the first 1000 miles. Try to not overheated and running in larger speeds. Oil changed at 300 miles and 700 miles. Tappets checked with oil changes.
After this 2000 miles the engine is coming to feel more loose and free. But the engine noise is more high too. Tappets taps normally, but the piston sounds clonk, clonk in cold and hot. The bike starts always at first kick, cold or hot, fuel consumption is ok, really low. Oil consumption is about 300 ml for every 1000 km, so as I read, is normal.
I have no other Bullet for compare. ¿This engine noise is normal, is ok?
Thanks
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 12:57:45 pm by donkey »
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Peter

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Reply #1 on: June 13, 2008, 05:57:39 pm
It could be that you are hearing piston slap.
That's not good if you can still hear it when hot.
Piston slap can be due to several things, an undersize piston, a distorted piston, particularly after partial seizure.
No way to tell what you hear, but if it's a new noise it warrants investigation.
I'd pull the jug off and examine the piston and replace it with a good one.
Make sure that the bore is good or have it overbored.

But the first thing would be to find somebody who knows what piston slap is and who can confirm it.

Peter


Kevin Mahoney

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Reply #2 on: June 13, 2008, 10:45:52 pm
We don't sell T-shirts that say "Loud Valves Saves Lives" for no reason. The engine is loud, period. for the most part in the US most of us don't really care, but in India general engine noise is not very well thought of. As to whether or not something is wrong it is difficult to tell. There is a lot to be said for the old saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". As long as it is full of oil, not making knocking sounds I don't think I would worry about it, especially if it is still under warranty. Noise can telegraph it's way around the engine also and tracking it down can be very frustrating.
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sqf

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Reply #3 on: June 13, 2008, 11:51:51 pm
I was amazed at how loud these valves are!  When I saw that shirt I identified with it immediately.  My valves get loudest when the bike warms up.  I broke 500 miles on the OD today! 
Fir Na Dli


Peter

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Reply #4 on: June 14, 2008, 12:18:48 am
We don't sell T-shirts that say "Loud Valves Saves Lives" for no reason. The engine is loud, period. for the most part in the US most of us don't really care, but in India general engine noise is not very well thought of. As to whether or not something is wrong it is difficult to tell. There is a lot to be said for the old saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". As long as it is full of oil, not making knocking sounds I don't think I would worry about it, especially if it is still under warranty. Noise can telegraph it's way around the engine also and tracking it down can be very frustrating.

Problem is that he describes it as "clonk, clonk"and coming from the piston. There is really no better description of piston slap than that. Valves don't make that sound. But here is also where the internet fails: his "clonk,clonk" from the piston might be our "clickety-clack" from the valvetrain.

I try to be as conservative as possible when it comes to a recommendation for a teardown but let's say Donkey's report is spot on and it is really piston slap. In that case, he can avoid major damage by checking it out.

I certainly hope that you are right and it's just noise paranoia.
I'm just worried because he didn't describe as clicking or clacking (valvetrain) or knocking (crankshaft) but "clonking", which is how I would describe piston slap.

Peter


Edit: I didn't realize that the motorcycle is still under warranty. That obviously complicates things. In my book, this situation is an opportunity to learn something about the engine and improve a known weak spot. Taking the jug off and putting it all together again for the first time is kind of empowering and is a bonding experience (and you get all that for a relatively minor mechanical challenge). But that's my book and there is nothing about warranties in the book. So YMMV.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 12:59:01 am by Peter »


deejay

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Reply #5 on: June 14, 2008, 12:35:22 am
i'm sure by 2,000 miles you are used to what it should sound like. if you think something is off why not pull the head and have a look? maybe order a new gasket before you do it though... and studs.  :)


Foggy_Auggie

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Reply #6 on: June 14, 2008, 01:01:59 am
Hate to say this, but it possibly might be the bushed connecting rod big end.

Only way to tell is to get the full service manual.  Pull the jug and check connecting rod end play and side play.  Also the small end wrist pin play.

Just a possibility -

RE1 has it right - keep driving it and look for changes.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 01:04:11 am by Foggy_Auggie »
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Peter

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Reply #7 on: June 14, 2008, 04:02:00 am
Hate to say this, but it possibly might be the bushed connecting rod big end....

That would be "knocking" not "clonking", but who knows what it really sounds like.
It's true though, that a big end or crankshaft problem would declare itself within the first few thousand miles. With a warranty one should probably go on and see what happens.


Peter


Foggy_Auggie

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Reply #8 on: June 14, 2008, 05:47:27 am
Hate to say this, but it possibly might be the bushed connecting rod big end....

That would be "knocking" not "clonking", but who knows what it really sounds like.
It's true though, that a big end or crankshaft problem would declare itself within the first few thousand miles. With a warranty one should probably go on and see what happens.


Peter

That's why verbage on the internet is subjective.  Nearly impossible to diagnose worded sounds interpretation - without being there.  And being there is still no guarantee for consensus until scientific method troubleshooting (if any is needed) is performed.
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Reply #9 on: June 15, 2008, 05:33:04 pm
There is another thread on the forum from someone with a loud very disturbing knock or rapping. After fearing the worst it turned out that all he needed was a valve adjustment. Not saying that this is your problem at all, but drive it and watch it.
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birdmove

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Reply #10 on: June 15, 2008, 05:38:59 pm
    It is so easy to just check your valve adjustment on these bikes.I checked mine early on and found them to be in perfect adjustment (good setup by Vinces!). I believe that one, after doing it the first time, can check the adjustment in 30 seconds (after getting the wrench in hand). Once I checked mine and found them fine I quit worrying about the noise-though my valve train on my 2007 iron Classic is not noisy at all.

    jon

   
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cyrusb

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Reply #11 on: June 16, 2008, 07:42:33 pm
You guys didn't mention  "Chuffing" Pretty standard RE sound.
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dewjantim

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Reply #12 on: June 16, 2008, 10:48:23 pm
I'm going with Kevin on this one boys. If you want to quieten the valves down a little, adjust the valves with the engine warm (not hot) until you can turn the pushrods, with some effort by hand. It will make the engine much quieter.......Dew.
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Peter

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Reply #13 on: June 18, 2008, 11:47:59 pm
You guys didn't mention  "Chuffing" Pretty standard RE sound.

Not to forget "Rapping" for a way loose pushrod.

Wonder what the "clonking" turned out to be.

Any news?


Peter


Snobrd

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Reply #14 on: June 19, 2008, 04:26:26 pm
An old friend of mine, unfortunately now deceased was a master engine tech for Pratt and Whitney.  He worked on the giant old rotary engines.  He told me all he needed for engine noise diagnosis was a piece of dowel, one end flat the other nicely rounded and smooth.  Round smooth end goes against the ear and the other placed on various parts of the engine until source of the sound is located.
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petefletcher

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Reply #15 on: June 19, 2008, 06:10:36 pm
Snobrd's friend was quite right. It's amazing how you can locate where an engine noise is with a "stethoscope"
I use a big screwdriver - handle in the ear and move the blade around on the engine.
It helps to do ]this before you have an unusual noise as you then know what "normal" is.
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donkey

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Reply #16 on: June 19, 2008, 07:12:04 pm
Thank you guys.
Well, tappets sounds good (as tappets must be sounds). I found the battery cover loose, making part of this strange (maybe) sounds. Other things is the final drive chaind sound, and maybe the primary, 'cuase I read the tensioner bolt may cause some sounds). Other things now can't worried me: the Bullet very good for the moment. Oil consumption is about 250 ml at 1000 km, no oiled or white smoke, never... That's right, isn't it?
Regards
"Never mind the track. The track is for punks. We are Road People. We are Café Racers." Hunter S. Thompson
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Royal Enfield Bullet 500ES
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Foggy_Auggie

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Reply #17 on: June 19, 2008, 09:39:55 pm
The primary chain tensioner has a sort of whirring sound.  Not very loud, but telegraphed through the case housing. 

I've never noticed a secondary chain noise.

All my noises are from the valve train.  They almost drown out any transmission noises.
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blackadder

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Reply #18 on: June 20, 2008, 05:40:54 am
I have about 1200 miles on my '08 Military and my engine also has freed up and makes more noises than it did before. I had my dealer ajust the valves on check everything out . It still makes noise but not as much.It still runs well and as I have come to understand after owning this bike and Urals is that you will drive yourself crazy trying to figure out what this or that little noise is. These old style engines all make noise that you don't hear when you jump on your modern bikes. Unless I hear some serious banging or massive pinging I am going to continue to roll on the throttle and enjoy the ride!
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PhilJ

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Reply #19 on: June 20, 2008, 01:17:14 pm
I knew they made noises like the "old" bike that it is (08). But just to see what I could find out I began moving my head around trying to find the source of the noises. I found that when moving my head to either side of the fuel tank most of the noise went away.  ??? The tank seems to magnify the sounds.


bob bezin

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Reply #20 on: June 20, 2008, 01:50:06 pm
windshields also magnify the sound. at 4700miles my delux is making a little more tappet sound  but nothing like the 650 bsa super rocket i used to have.i used to have to check the clearences with a feeler gauge 8 thou for intake and 10 thou for exhaust you can imagine the racket compaired to a re with its snug fit.
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blackadder

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Reply #21 on: June 22, 2008, 04:25:07 am
The first time I put a winshield on my Ural I thought my engine was coming apart! Windshields act likes monitors on a sound stage.
C. Loyd, -2008 RE Bullet Military, 2006 Triumph Speedmaster


LotusSevenMan

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Reply #22 on: June 22, 2008, 08:56:23 am
With the bike nearly run in I am starting to use it a bit more so there is just more mechanical tapping from the Samrats etc ha ha.
The primary chain can be heard whirring away which sounds nice and I have found a full tank of fuel stops some of the amplified noises that the tank can create when nearly empty PhilJ.
Just such a fun bike. Have to now stop slight weep from primary chain case (maybe that's why I can now hear the chain due to lack of oil (!!!) and wish that g/box oil mist/drip would go elsewhere rather on my chrome muffler/silencer and leave the brown mark (see another thread. Grrrrrrrrrr)  ;D
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MOKAN-BULLET

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Reply #23 on: June 25, 2008, 05:26:39 am
Any WAV/MP3 files out there help with diagnostics? it had to trouble shoot if you don't know what you are listening for.