[meilaushi]

Just got a turbulator from CMW, but it came with no instructions as to where to put it.  Air filter side of the carburetor, or in the rubber tube between the carburetor and the engine.  Anybody know?  And anybody have any thoughts on how well the thing works, gas mileage, engine benefits, etc?

[Foggy_Auggie]

My Turbulator came with a small instruction sheet.

Remove the air filter box and gas tank fuel line.  Loosen the clamp that binds the carb to the rubber intake tube.  Slide the carb back and off the tube.  Don't have to unhook anything else - just let the carb gently dangle.

Slide the Turbulator into the rubber intake tube until it rests on the countersink inside the intake tube.  The rolled part of the Turbulator will be facing your eyes - the vane angle twist will be logical.

Slide the carb back on to rest against the Turbulator and gently tighten the clamp.  Make sure the carb is aligned and the throttle operates freely.  Don't overtighten the clamps where the rubber could be distorted.

Button everything back up and go ride.

My mileage has always been 75-80 MPG so don't know what effect it has on mileage.  But it did smooth out mid range throttle transition.  Before, I had a small stumble at odd times during acceleration.  Now it's smooth and linear.

My Bullet accelerates like a dump truck slowly being driven off a cliff.

[meilaushi]

Thanks, Foggy!  ...They oughta include your instructions with the thing.  Clear, concise, and just what the Doctor ordered!   

[birdmove]

  And let us know how it works when you get it installed.

   jon

[LotusSevenMan]

Yeah, I for one would like to hear your 'before' and 'after' comments. Please don't make the mistake of altering anything else when doing this otherwise you/we won't know which mod improved/ruined it!!!!
Cheers,                LSM

[meilaushi]

I will do.  It'll be awhile though.  Tomorrow I run the bike over to L & L in Hubbard for it's 500 (300???) mile service (they said 500), and Matt's putting on a shortie exhaust to replace the restrictive OEM with the (ahem) anti-emissions addition.  That may require rejetting (the CMW catalog sez it will, though right now I can start the bike with 1 kick every time without turning on the enricher--so rejetting might not be necessary, I don't know)  Anyway, I'll wait awhile to see what happens with that before following Foggy's great directions and putting in the turbolator.  Then I'll let y'all know what happens.

Best I can say right at the moment is that with everything OEM and no changes, he gets about 70mpg (70+ the first tankful, and 69+ the second).  Still breaking him in so that has something to do with things too.   ...I think.

[Foggy_Auggie]

After 2000 miles the bike really settles in.  It's not the same bike as it was at 300 miles.  The annoying glitches go away and the rider and bike understand each other by then.

Just my own caveats:

Run the recommended tire pressures on the high side.  Make sure the tire valve stem base nuts are thumb tight.

ALWAYS put the piston right after TDC when using the electric starter.  This is to save the starter clutch and gear buildout.  I use the kickstart lever by hand and gauge by feel.

I never use the decompressor.  Carbon can possibly stick this open - an old habit from the old days.

If the rear shocks are adjustable I always use the softest setting; and I'm no light weight!

Don't overtighten the spark plug - just enough to feel a compression on a new plug gasket.  Check the spark plug tightness every couple of rides.

Go over the tightness of the timing cover screws.  This usually only needs to be done once before the bike settles in.  Don't put a wrench on it!

Check the tightness of the banjo bolt on the bottom right crankcase attachment of the rocker box oil feed tubes.  This tends to seep some oil - but go easy on this also.

Always keep the chain lubed and adjusted per the owners manual.  I use "Chain Wax" which doesn't fling out all over the place. 

If the rear brake is adjusted too tight - it will tend to bind a little when hot.  On the centerstand the rear wheel should turn freely - and it will cold.  But if not enough free play, the brake shoes will be rubbing after a ride when the bike is up on the centerstand.  They will sometimes chatter at low speed stops but seems the nature of the beast.

My Enfield is now like a Universal Japanese Motorcycle.  I just give it a pre-ride oil check  and visual, start it up and ride.  Give it a post ride visual and park it.  Check the nuts and bolts, tire pressure, etc. no more than any other motorcycle.

Cheers!

[meilaushi]

Thanks, Foggy!  Again, Great tips!  Most helpful to keep in mind.  So far everything's been tight, but I really need to check everything with a wrench as the little bugger vibrates more than the Triumph or Beemer.

[LotusSevenMan]

Any news?

[cyrusb]

Maybe some "Trials "and "Turbulations ' ?

[LotusSevenMan]

Cyrusb.

That's a terrible pun. 

I see that Arnie Schwarzenegger is doing a remake of his classic film; "Turbulator"

Oh no; it's catching Cyrusb!!!!!!

[meilaushi]

Haven't had a chance to put it in yet.   

[meilaushi]

  And let us know how it works when you get it installed.

   jon

LIke the man who jumped off the 10 story building was heard to say as he passed each floor...."So far, so good!"...(line from Mag. 7 by one 'a m' favorite actors... Steve McQueen)...

Haven't run the bike far enough to see what the effect might be on mileage.  Before it was 69.+ to 70.+ mpg.  Did also add the shortie OEM exhaust in place of the long restrictive tube, Plus the turbulator (trial & turbulation???  as the pun above indicated?).

Anyway, from 2 or 3 kicks, following the SOP for kick starting (I don't use the enricher as the carb seems rich enough for cold starting without it, and I don't do the 3 kickovers either--just 'find compression,' turn key on, press kick lever slightly until the points open--indicated by the ammeter going from negative to 0, return kick lever to top and give a good kick straight through to bottom) it now starts with one kick every time, and throttle seems quite responsive (but then it never did seem to have any hesitation at any point like my old Honda CB750K2 used to have).  Whatever it's turbulatin', it appears to be doing no harm and maybe some good (but more on that when I get around to putting some more gas in the tank and see what the mileage per gallon is.  Back on this one later.

[clamp]

A petrol engine needs 15.7:1 fuel air ratio. If it is higher or lower damage can occure to the engine with overheat or in the case of a rich mixture bad milage.

      When the piston goes down (swept volume) it sucks in air,-- you can not do anything to alter that apart from force (turbo etc) or cleaning and smoothing the intake. Certainly not putting things in its way.

   Little things that fit in manifolds are nothing more than gimicks that the purchaser will want to work because he spent money on it ,such is the human.

    It is arguable that spinning the intake mixture could help intake BUT to suggest that one gadget could reduce fuel consumption and or increase efficency for ALL shapes and lengths of manifolds or intakes is nonsence.

      Do you ever see dragsters or performance vehicles using this stuff, alas no only the man in the street.

   More seriously you may want to consider the damage to your engine if the gadget came loose,-broke up and went into your engine.

[Foggy_Auggie]

A petrol engine needs 15.7:1 fuel air ratio. If it is higher or lower damage can occure to the engine with overheat or in the case of a rich mixture bad milage.

      When the piston goes down (swept volume) it sucks in air,-- you can not do anything to alter that apart from force (turbo etc) or cleaning and smoothing the intake. Certainly not putting things in its way.

   Little things that fit in manifolds are nothing more than gimicks that the purchaser will want to work because he spent money on it ,such is the human.

    It is arguable that spinning the intake mixture could help intake BUT to suggest that one gadget could reduce fuel consumption and or increase efficency for ALL shapes and lengths of manifolds or intakes is nonsence.

      Do you ever see dragsters or performance vehicles using this stuff, alas no only the man in the street.

   More seriously you may want to consider the damage to your engine if the gadget came loose,-broke up and went into your engine.

It is a gadget - but it works in some motorcycle applications.  And Bullet owners have discussed your above thoughts for years. 

And not seeing an actual one yourself - no it can't break up and it can't be sucked into the engine.

It does nothing to influence the air fuel ratio.  It has small angled ridges on the circumference of a ring.  All it affects is the misting stream of the fuel aft of the carb as it flows into the intake throat.  A vortex effect.

Such principle is applied to automotive intake manifolds which has this feature CAST into the manifold after engineering and fluid dynamic testing of the prototypes.

And it does work.  I had midrange flat spots at times in hot weather (and yes my carb is jetted and adjusted correctly).  The Turbulator cured this.

It gives me consistant smooth throttle transitions.

CMW has offered this "gadget" for years - and with positive customer feedback.

[PhilJ]

Nonsense it is not. The more efficiently the fuel is mixed with air the more it will burn completely in the combustion chamber, thereby increasing fuel efficiency and power ( you will probably not feel the power ).

Racers of all kinds go to great lengths to improve intake manifold performance with what ever is working at the time, until someone comes up with the next good plan.

[GreenMachine]

Take it easy guys..Hot enough out there...Was thinking about getting one myself but last i checked they were out of them...cheap enough for a experiment at least...yes a dialed in carb is the idea for sure...heard about something similiar for a car, but can't remember..Must have been a commercial somewhere re. performance and increased gas mileage...sure it was a commercial....u guys have a great day..

[clamp]

In the light of motor manufactures constant attempts at economy and performance name me one that uses these.

    Seems a small price to pay for such improvements. Of course manifold technology is of paramount importance but they dont use little gadgets in the intake.

   Anything in the way of the atomised fuel will cause it to convert to droplets , even a rough textured intake wall will cause this,purposely placing something in its way will have similar effect.

     Just about everything in the accessories supermarket is full of wild claims of economy, even tail pipes. If you fitted all of these you would be running on thimbles as a fuel tank.

     Pity the car manufactures hav'nt heard about all this technology.

     If your money is burning a hole in your pocket --buy the wife some flowers,--you'lle get far more for your money.

     

[Foggy_Auggie]

Clamp,

I was a racing engine builder about 35 years ago.  And have followed the technology to this day.  Also was an aircraft engine tech in the military.  I would be the last one to fall for a "gimmick".

Have also rode and wrenched motorcycles close to 50 years.

The carburation, intake physics and fluid dynamics on a 50 year old design can be improved by simple modifications.  And just as easily disproved.

Your blanket dismissal of this "gadget" and put down of individuals who use it is revealing - especially since you've never had one in your hand.

The black and white issue is - it does what it claims when applied to carburated motorcycles.  It smoothed out my mid-range throttle response in a crisp manner.  No flat spots.  And I don't care whether fuel economy was changed or not.

And if all of us who got one then sent it back - why would CMW be out of them? 

As you alluded to in another thread you think there are "dim wits" among us - I'll let you get the last word.

[clamp]

Point well put foggy ,--good reply. I would rather not post my  resume.

    I guess we will just have to agree on disagreement?

    To have one in my hand is not really necessary. Ive never seen an exhaust valve glowing red hot whilst opening and closing many times a second ,--but im quite sure it does.

   Seems strange doesnt it that racing mechanics labouriously grind manifolds to gaskets and enlarge valve chambers, litrally spending hours clearing the way for more air. when  improvement can be apparantly achieved by fitting a turbulator in its way.


   Maybe you had an intake leak ,-- removing the carb and  re fitting cured it?

   

[GreenMachine]

One thing for sure, per previous post and reading harley posting, their is a good chance you r going to have to rejet the carb..some people have experienced lean plug conditions when installing and have removed them...it would be interesting to have enfield on dyno and see if any changes are develped with it installed and carb setup changes made (if needed) and then dialed in...I was looking for independent  research on the subject but didn't find anything...Do I believe that early technologist were trying different things for squeezing horsepower out of economy (u bet ya)...In this specific application, did it work ? don't know but apparently this thing been around a long time.  Is it doing what we believe it should be doing or have we talked ourselves into believing it is....I'll let u guys have fun with it...

[Foggy_Auggie]

My plug readings are fine.

The design indicates it gives a tiny ventury effect.  A slight increase in velocity right at the rolled edge of the ring.  And there would be a swirl effect just on the outer circumference of the intake flow.  At low intake velocities there probably isn't any calculated air flow differences.  As the intake velocity increases so to the effect.

I can't make any mileage claims for it, if any. 

[clamp]

I read a very serious conversataion on another forum about the "art" of plug reading.

    With the fuels we are sold today -unleaded etc and bio fuels depending on where you are ofcourse it is a somewhat tricky job. The old pictures of plug charts issued by the likes of Champion and NGK with their colour comparisons can be dangerous.

      The straw colour that we all try to achieve could be way too weak if you can get it to run that weak.

   I believe in America 81 is the norm where as In Thailand I cant buy as low as 81 to give a comparison.

       A light chocolate was apparanty agreed upon as being OK even black as long as the pot was white straw.

     Personally I like to smell the exhaust,--- difficult at motorway speeds!!

      A nice crisp responsive engine through all three stages of carbaration is pretty near the mark. back firing ,---ok, but constant spitting through the carb should be looked at.

    An engine that can run without choke  without spitting back after a minute or two is also pretty near.   

[cyrusb]

When applying this kind of stuff to a bullet, isn't it like taking a tide reading before and after you pissed in the bay?

[Leonard]

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_support/spark_plugs/faqs/faqread.asp?mode=nml

[GreenMachine]

thanks for the spark reading guide...i'm going to check my plug again...i never pissed in the tide but I've pissed in the ocean ...its a big ocean out there and assume my little bit of piss won't make much of a difference...gotta love it...

[clamp]

That guide is for engine malfunction rather than mixture tuning ,-but hey its all good stuff very interesting.

[jonapplegate]

Okay, I tried not to reply. I even walked away to do laundry but I had to come back and add my two cents. I used to follow pretty much every discipline of racing that involved the internal combustion engine (except that craftsman truck racing series. WHY?). I don't follow NASCAR at all anymore but when I did the powers that be had the teams fit restricter plates to slow the cars down.  H.P. plummeted. Over the years afterward, guess what? Horsepower crept back up to near peak levels. How did this happen? It was the combination of many refinements but the biggest was the ADDITION OF VANES AND OTHER SUCH CHANNELING under the restricter plate.
     So, some engine builders do use this sort of black magic in their manifolds and heads, it just depends on the application. Top fuel, Funny car and heck even Pro stock don't need these mods because of either what is in their rulebooks or because they are creating such incredible vacuum that indeed, as Clamp says, anything placed in the way of the intake charge would be an unneeded restriction. On engines with relatively low vacuum and thus a very real possibility of fuel losing its atomization and "dropping out" some of these devices do indeed work.
   I have seen the Infomercials with the wild claims and I do not trust those. Some of them are so complicated looking that common sense would tell you that they must be a high end restriction. Also anything that gets placed upstream of the carb or injection is just going to cause trouble. Well maybe not the injection systems but the carb most certainly. Dyno tests show that carbs work better when they have a smooth column of air coming in and rough, turbulent airflow causes mixing problems. 
    WHEW! I am longwinded.     

[Foggy_Auggie]

The Turbulator is not a restrictor plate.  It doesn't restrict.  It's just a venturi device.  Think of it as a brass "O" ring that creates an airfoil effect on an otherwise slow moving single volume of air/fuel mix.  The tiny inside circumference blades helps to atomize the heavier fuel droplets being carried along by the relatively slow large volume velocity.

[meilaushi]

The turbulator is installed (interesting pro-con-pro etc. etc. and so forth discussion above) along with the India-made original pipe and silencer in place of the restrictive long one...  And despite the freer flow of exhaust, with the turbulator installed, it seems I'm getting the same gas mileage I was before either was installed--i.e., when the bike was running with no turbulaor and the original restrictive exhaust.  What is noticeable is increased power, apparently without a decrease in mpg.  I'm a happy camper still at 69-70mpg (which I got before the modifications).

[jonapplegate]

foggie_auggie, what you said. Concise.

[petefletcher]

Just out of interest there was a very long discussion about a simular device which is manufactured for Landrover engines on the UK Landrover forum. I know, different engine/fuel/turbo etc but the same principle.
Someone actually went to the lengths of testing the thing on a Dyno but even then there was never a clear-cut result.

[LotusSevenMan]

http://www.mklsportster.com/xlturbulator.htm

Well  ?

[PhilJ]

Seems like an exercise in futility....

[clamp]

Theres only one way to check fuel consumption and that with a fuel flow in a controled environment.
      Saying you got 10% more to  a tank on a drive down town is quite frankly insulting to anyones intelligence.
 
     Maybe the lights were at green today,--did you neck fill it?,--too many variables.

    10% can be conveniently manipulated.

   As I have said before this is a device for the gullable.

[Foggy_Auggie]

   As I have said before this is a device for the gullable.

The time zone hit for the motorbike Wikepedia 

All I claimed was better throttle response in mid range - and I don't nibble on magic mushrooms.

[clamp]

Maybe this thread has been exhausted. However I have a little chuckle to myself when I imagine an apprentice at a tuning shop removing a manifold for tuning.

      The master mechanic walks up and says "right lad we got to get more air in here to improve Hp so all corners and dohickies what ever has to be removed' Think free flow.

      The apprenitice says   " err what about this thing here that looks like fishing hook barbs sticking out of the side"

     " WHAT DID I JUST SAY" says the mechanic.

     Isnt it strange that a 3 angled valve job can produce a surprising increase , yet its almost invisible to the naked eye.