[Supesguy]

Greetings! I just thought I'd write up an initial review of the D&D exhaust from a different user.  I ordered the full system in power coat black.  This includes the pipe and silencer, K&N crankcase air filter, and an UNI pod air filter. 

First on the exhaust system itself...
The fit and finish are excellent.  The black powdercoat finish is consistent and blemish-free.  The silencer feels very solid built. On the pipe, there is a heat shield surrounding about half the circumference of the pipe pretty much from the cyclinder head to the silencer.  It is attached with some pipe clamps (the kind you tighten with a screwdriver).  There is a flat flange already on the pipe to secure the pipe to the exhaust studs.  You need to reuse your old nuts for the studs to secure the pipe.  The silencer, while solidly built seems lighter than the factory silencer (a good thing). It has to be.  The factory one is a freakin' behemoth.  The D&D has a great shape in my opinion.  It is secured to the pipe with a collar that uses a bolt and two threaded cams.  Per the instructions, you loose mount everything and then work from the exhaust forward as you tighten things down.  Really, there's only six things to tighten, and three of those are just the pipe clamps securing the heatshield to the down-pipe. Once everything is tightened down, I gave things a wiggle to see how secure everything is...rock solid.  I haven't used locktite or JB Weld yet on nuts as I figured I'd test ride it before commiting to that. One note, I had to adjust the foot brake pedal position screw to make the return position a little lower.  Otherwise, the armature of the brake pedal would contact the pipe.  I may need to adjust the nut in the back of the back nearest the rear brake to ensure it is not lightly engaged. 

As for the sound of the system...holy crap! It is louder, but makes the bike sound soooo much better.  You can really feel the "thump" in your seat at idle or low rpms.  There are no rattles detectable by me in the system. My old factory exhaust rattled and always seemed like a source of unwanted noise. I did discover, when I took it off, that the factory exhaust had broken at the joint of the silencer and pipe.  That was, no doubt, a source of rattles, but I never liked the factory heat shield either.  It seemed to vibrate up and down a lot, and even needed bending away from the pipe to prevent contact. 

I haven't really butt dyno'd the system yet, as I figured I'd let the system settle in before I really got on it.  I have not yet installed the crankcase filter or the UNI pod air filter.  I'm trying to see if there are any noticeable gains in hp before installing the air filter. 

Can anyone comment on the advantage of the crankcase filter? I guess I get to remove the crankcase hose the goes up to the stock airbox, which will be nice, but advantages?

As a whole, I am very pleased with this system. I love the sound, fit and finish, and ease of installation.  I'll try to update this thread when I get the filters installed. 

[ace.cafe]

The crankcase filter is unnecessary because there should be no air being drawn into the crankcase under any circumstance via the breather hole.
There must be a one way valve in that breather system, either built-in to the engine, or added to the line. If not, the engine will have unnecessary pumping losses thru the breather, losing power, hurting ring seal, and making the engine run hotter than necessary.

[Ducati Scotty]

Hmmmm.....  I wonder if you could get a little extra power by just putting a one way valve on a stock bike?  There's no valve built in as far as I know.

Scott

[barenekd]

The cone filter is not for the EFI. It will most likely run poorly with it. The EFI needs a long smooth intake.
Bare

[ace.cafe]

Hmmmm.....  I wonder if you could get a little extra power by just putting a one way valve on a stock bike?  There's no valve built in as far as I know.

Scott

If there is no breather valve built in to the UCE engine, then it definitely could benefit from even a duckbill on the breather hose.
The UCE has a larger crankcase volume than the old Iron Barrel models, but it could still benefit. Even big V8 engines can benefit from reduced crankcase pressure.

[Ducati Scotty]

There are countless threads on the Monster forums about this.  The breather has a large labyrinth connected to it to keep the oil out of the air cleaner.  Lots of people like to ditch the labyrinth and the valve to free up space and relocate the reg/rectifier from under the seat for better airflow.  Theoretically you lose a bit of HP on the Monster by ditching the valve but they're so powerful to start with you'd hardly notice.  But if I can gain a bit on my RE for adding a part for a few dollars, why not?

Do they make generic valves?  Can I just grab a cheap PCV from a Chevy or something?

Scott

[Craig McClure]

I have no PCV valve, & run my crank case ventilation hose up over the rear fender to the rear, like Triumph & BSA used to do. When I got my 2010 G5 deluxe, there was a puddle of oil in the breather box, & the filter was oil fouled & making the bike run to rich. I cleaned it all out, & put a cane tip (plug) on the original hose spigot. I found a nice pleated white paper air filter from a big lawnmower at O'reilly Auto Parts. As you know it is hard to get the correct oil level, after a change. Your engine crank case will blow oil into the filter box if it is overfilled even slightly. My bike blows any overfill out the back. my air filter stays clean, & my G5 Deluxe runs beautifully.

[gashousegorilla]

 

I haven't really butt dyno'd the system yet, as I figured I'd let the system settle in before I really got on it.  I have not yet installed the crankcase filter or the UNI pod air filter.  I'm trying to see if there are any noticeable gains in hp before installing the air filter. 

 

   You should be good with the Uni filter... they are pretty restrictive as compared to a standard cloth element pod type filter. The Uni SHOULD'NT  radically change manifold pressure, or at least it's effects  on the map sensor. I ran a 6 " Uni last year with good effects.  BUT, with all this extra air your flowing through the motor with the intake and exhaust. The question is, will the ECU compensate with extra fuel to match it ? If it does, then you should see some gains.

[ace.cafe]

There are countless threads on the Monster forums about this.  The breather has a large labyrinth connected to it to keep the oil out of the air cleaner.  Lots of people like to ditch the labyrinth and the valve to free up space and relocate the reg/rectifier from under the seat for better airflow.  Theoretically you lose a bit of HP on the Monster by ditching the valve but they're so powerful to start with you'd hardly notice.  But if I can gain a bit on my RE for adding a part for a few dollars, why not?

Do they make generic valves?  Can I just grab a cheap PCV from a Chevy or something?

Scott

The duckbill is probably the cheapest.
You can use a PCV or brake booster valve from a Volvo(model/part number unknown), or you can use the KrankVent. The KrankVent is the best. It's used almost universally on racing singles in the vintage events.
The PCV valves are sort of a "hit and miss". You want a fast acting one with a lightweight ball actuator that will act at the most minimal change in pressure.
The benefits of reduced crankcase pressure are so significant that it is one of the first things that I always recommend to do when setting up an engine for a Fireball.

[Ducati Scotty]

Volvo?!?!?  Aaaaaack!!!!!  I owned one.  More accurately, my wife owned it which means I fixed it.  Her family is from Sweden so they own plenty of them.  1998 S70 GLT.  I will never buy a Swedish car again in my life, what a POS!  I hated that car.  Problems all the time, really weird obscure problems, spent waaaaaay too much time under that hood and way too much money.  I finally sold it last year and got her a Honda Civic.  She tells everyone that I am notably happier and less stressed since we got rid of it.

I say this because I am a little reluctant to put a Volvo part on anything.  But I see this:
http://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/WC/17414-01002582.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=ff&utm_content=YN&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base&utm_term=1973-1974+Volvo+142+Booster+Check+Valve+ATE+73-74+Volvo+Booster+Check+Valve&gclid=CJSr953_hLgCFRHhQgodOh4ABw
That's cheap and comes from the older Volvos, they were much better cars than the newer ones.  I'll consider it, but don't you dare tell my wife I'm using Volvo parts on my bike.  I'll never hear the end of it...

Craig, I'm lucky.  My bike has never spit out any oil, though it seems some of them are prone to it.

Scott

[D the D]

Ha ha.  I won't tell your wife you have Volvo parts if you don't tell anyone I have Mercedes clamps and bolts on my bike!    I got the Crankvent at Ace's recommendation and ran a black tube out to the rear along the frame.  No more oil in the air box and really, none has puddled out of the tube since I did this.  I even stuck a piece of paper towel in the tube the other day to see if it was wet.  Just water vapor during warm-up time.

[Ducati Scotty]

KrankVent looks great but that's $$$$$$.  I'm po' right now.

Scott

[Arizoni]

Out of curiosity I braved the 109 degree F (42.8* C) temperatures outside to see exactly what the crankcase vent hose attaches to.

I half expected to see the worlds largest PCV valve but found it is just a simple piece of steel with a large hole thru it.

The Repair Manual shows a photo of the inside of the right side cover.  It has several angular deflectors cast into it making a torturous path for any crankcase fumes exiting the engine. 
These deflectors are intended to separate the oil from the vapor and in the 10500+ miles I've ridden they have done a good job.
The only oil that has escaped into my air box was so slight that it has only made a very light deposit around the area where the vent hole enters it.

[ace.cafe]

Out of curiosity I braved the 109 degree F (42.8* C) temperatures outside to see exactly what the crankcase vent hose attaches to.

I half expected to see the worlds largest PCV valve but found it is just a simple piece of steel with a large hole thru it.

The Repair Manual shows a photo of the inside of the right side cover.  It has several angular deflectors cast into it making a torturous path for any crankcase fumes exiting the engine. 
These deflectors are intended to separate the oil from the vapor and in the 10500+ miles I've ridden they have done a good job.
The only oil that has escaped into my air box was so slight that it has only made a very light deposit around the area where the vent hole enters it.

Yes, the labyrinth is fine for an air/oil separator on the breather, but lowering the crankcase pressure with one of the devices made to do that would help reduce pumping losses and improve ring sealing, and those are what I consider to be the critical factors.

[Ducati Scotty]

Found a similar valve for an older BMW.  Probably the same part but doesn't say Volvo on it

Scott

[mattsz]

How much air are we talking about?  The displacement of the piston?

I can't imagine that a long rubber hose with a duckbill at the end would be effective at keeping air from being pulled back in as the piston ascends, but then I'm known for not knowing stuff.

Is this a mod we should be seriously thinking about?  I wouldn't say no to a little more power, and if it would help the engine...

[AgentX]

How much air are we talking about?  The displacement of the piston?

I can't imagine that a long rubber hose with a duckbill at the end would be effective at keeping air from being pulled back in as the piston ascends,

It's worked well enough on the Iron Barrels and other bikes throughout history...  according to Ace, the krankvent is a lot better as RPMs get higher,  but the duckbill is simple and I can't see why you'd think it couldn't work.

The negative pressure on the inside of the case sucks the lips of the bill shut, sealing it off until the piston comes back down.  Unless the rubber is ripped or malformed, it's pretty solid.

Wish I had a UCE engine handy to get a better picture of the breather system you guys are discussing.

[ace.cafe]

How much air are we talking about?  The displacement of the piston?

I can't imagine that a long rubber hose with a duckbill at the end would be effective at keeping air from being pulled back in as the piston ascends, but then I'm known for not knowing stuff.

Is this a mod we should be seriously thinking about?  I wouldn't say no to a little more power, and if it would help the engine...

It's something to be aware of.
It's a 500cc displacement of air being pushed out, and then being sucked back in, with each stroke. Since the small orifice and hose size can't possibly permit that much air to move in and out with each stroke, it creates a pressure inside the crankcase. The air that it can move in and out thru the hose results in unnecessary work being done, which removes horsepower from the crankshaft that would normally be used to drive the bike.
The pressure in the crankcase has an effect on the rings. The rings require a firm seat on the lower platform of the ring grooves. If they lift off, then the ring seal is compromised, and loss of compression occurs, and blow by. While this might not be happening at a massive amount, ring flutter or unseating will reduce power output, builds up even more pressure inside the crankcase from the loss of sealing, and can make the engine run hotter. So, a relatively small amount power output is lost, and overall efficiency is reduced. Perhaps 1-2hp in total, depending on rpm.
With a properly functioning one-way valve on the breather, the air is pushed out by the piston on the downstroke, and basically no air comes back in thru the breather on the upstroke. So, it a fairly short time, the crankcase pressure is pumped down to a relatively lower pressure, thus alleviating these issues. Also helps to prevent oil leaks.

[mattsz]

Thanks ACE.  You posted that while I was responding to AgentX.  Here it is anyway:

Is saying I can't imagine it would be effective the same thing as saying I think it couldn't work?  Ok, I suppose maybe it is.

Disclaimer: until this discussion, and maybe a few others on this forum, I never really understood that the long tube with a duckbill on the end was meant to affect crankcase pressure; I thought the tube simply directed excess oil away from the bike, and the duckbill kept dirty air and crud from getting in.

I guess I was thinking that because air, and possibly a rubber tube, is so compressible, the higher the volume of your sealed environment, the less effective the system would be.

I can see how a valve right on the crankcase would provide maximum effectiveness.  But what if we inserted between them a tube with a very large inner diameter and length?  At some point there's just too much compressible air between the crankcase and the valve; you've effectively increased the volume of the crankcase to a point where the valve won't matter.

Two extreme examples: clamp your lips around a shotglass and try to breathe in and out - you won't get far.  That's our valve right on the crankcase.  Now do the same with a 50-foot garden hose that's sealed at one end - you'll breathe pretty easy (at least until you deplete the oxygen in the hose - put the hose down now!).  Might this be our long rubber tube with a duckbill on the end?

I understand the concept, I was just wondering at what point we gain performance with the different installations (read my disclaimer again).  Anyway, you guys must know by now that I over-think stuff!

[ace.cafe]

Well, if you consider that with the crankcase volume of a 7 liter V8 engine with plenty of volume, along with some pistons going up when some are going down, it is even considered important enough that racers put a high suction vacuum pump on their crankcases to produce negative pressure in their crankcases to get the best results. And these vacuum pump systems cost thousands of dollars to put on them.

With our bikes, we are not trying to get a vacuum, but simply run the crankcase at as low pressure as feasible in a simple way.
I agree that the valve close to the engine is the preferred location, but I do allow some room for flexibility of installation. From what I have seen, we never reach a situation where we are actually collapsing or expanding the breather hose from these pressure changes, so it's okay to locate it where you feel it suits you. As long as we're not pulling air back into the crankcase thru the breather hose, we're in pretty good shape.

[Supesguy]

Well, since I started the thread with the review...I feel obligated to chime in on this subject.  I did some calculations on the volume of air residing in the crankcase breather hose.  Here's the math:

Volume of a cylinder = pi * r² * h
Our cylinder (the hose) = 3/8 in. ID x 12 in.
                                             or
                                   = .9525 cm ID x 30 cm
                                 r = .9525 cm / 2 = .47625 cm
Volume of our hose = (3.14) x (.47625 cm)² x (30 cm)
                             = 21.37 cm³
                             = 21.37 cc (cubic centimeters)

So...the volume of air residing in our crankcase breather hose at idle is 21.37 cc.  I'm not an engineer, so I'll rely on you brainiacs to ponder whether this is a detrimental amount of air potentially being sucked in without a duckbill valve? Just thought I'd add fuel to the fire...errr...engine. Wait...what?

[Arizoni]

Your math is fine.
You might want to rethink the idea that the air in the hose is the only thing that gets sucked in without the duckbill though.

Without the duckbill, the end of the hose is open so air outside the hose can also get sucked in thru the hose.  That's the  reason the duckbill is there.
It is a one way valve that lets air escape but keeps the outside air from re-entering the engine during the pistons upstrokes.

With the duckbill installed on any length of hose a partial vacuum is created in the engines crankcase when the engine is running.