[Rich Mintz]

Just finished a 250-mile drive from NYC to DC and I ran into a bunch of small (?) mechanical problems on the way. Nothing that prevented me from finishing the trip, but...

First of all, at mile 100 at a rest stop I realized that the front bolt that secures the neck of the gas tank had lost its nut and was itself about to fall out! A competent mechanic on the scene tried to find a matching nut, failed, and then improvised a solution. He took an old bolt he had on hand, cut it down, put a sheath (an old socket) on the head end to position the threads in the right place, and put a nut on it. It pokes out 2 inches on the left and limits the leftward turn of the handlebars (so for instance I can't engage the fork lock), but the bars never turn that far when the bike is actually in motion. I'll order the factory parts when I get home and fix it right.

Second, the airbox (on the right, below the seat) kept popping open in the rain! The sound of the engine changes so I notice that immediately and pop it closed again. If a little rain gets in there, will it create a problem?

Third and most importantly: I can't reach first gear anymore, and can only intermittently reach neutral. If I kick it down as far as it can go, I mostly end up in a false neutral that's in between second gear and actual neutral.  The lower gears have always been balky but until now I could always get into neutral or first (when it stuck) by letting out the clutch or rolling onto the throttle a bit. Not anymore.

The bike is perfectly drivable without a first gear, you just need a bit more clutch finesse from a dead stop (and I've been driving stick for 30 years, so I can handle that ), but it feels ridiculous.

I don't have a good mental picture of the innards of my transmission (and even if you showed me one I'd struggle - I'm not visual in that way). What do you think is happening? Bike is under warranty but to be honest I don't know if I trust my dealer to take the transmission apart.

[hocko]

Rich, hi with regards the gear selection, make sure you clutch cable is properly adjusted, start by adjusting it so that there is no gap at the clutch handle at all, then take it out to a maximum of 3mm, worked for me, as for the bolts Blue loctite is the cure and plenty of it. A bit of rain probably would't pentrate past the air hose .

Cheers 

[Arizoni]

I don't own a C5 but if your airbox has that black housing with the filter inside I wouldn't worry about water getting in.
To fix the door until I got home I'd buy a roll of duct tape or reinforced package tape and tape the damn thing shut.  After I got home I'd worry about fixing it with better methods.

The bolt and nut should be available at a hardware store.  Most of them carry metric sizes now.

For the transmission, I'd nurse it home and then take it to the dealer.
He's the guy who's paid to fix complicated things like this so with the warranty in hand that's the place I'd head.
The inner workings of a transmission are pretty complex so this isn't a job for a home mechanic.

Good luck on your trip back home.

[mattsz]

I used some blue loctite on that very nut and bolt, but I discovered I didn't tighten it enough (the flanges on my new tank are wider than the OEM one, so despite the extra spacers I added to fill the gap, I was being careful not to deform them).  If one breaks the loctite seal by tightening further, does that essentially render the loctite application useless?


While Rich is at it, any reason not to replace the original flange nut:


with a nyloc one and washer?

[ace.cafe]

A Nyloc nut would do fine on there. And from what I have seen of the fuel tanks, they are all hand made, and they differ in dimensions from one to the next. So, it would not be unusual for there to be variations in fit and how the bolt/nut can tighten or not tighten on the tank.

On the Iron Barrel tanks, I have seen some that were slightly offset to one side, and I was able to use washers on the bolt inside the front flange of the tank to space it over some, and get it to sit centered.
This kind of thing is typical Indian Enfield. Many of the parts are not made identical.

Regarding the shifting, I agree that the first thing is to do the clutch adjustment to see if that will take care of it. That is the most common thing to affect it.

[mattsz]

A Nyloc nut would do fine on there. And from what I have seen of the fuel tanks, they are all hand made, and they differ in dimensions from one to the next. So, it would not be unusual for there to be variations in fit and how the bolt/nut can tighten or not tighten on the tank.

Ace - regarding my different replacement tank: Kevin Mahoney said to me, "Somewhere along the line RE changed the stamping for the underside of the tank to allow for a little more room and to make a better tank. The net result is that the flanges are wider on new tanks. We are not 100% sure when this occurred because they make running changes on the bikes and not model year changes."

On the Iron Barrel tanks, I have seen some that were slightly offset to one side, and I was able to use washers on the bolt inside the front flange of the tank to space it over some, and get it to sit centered.
This kind of thing is typical Indian Enfield. Many of the parts are not made identical.

Ron Greene called this "Royal Enfieldness"... 

But enough about me!  Lock those tank bolts, Rich!

[Chuck D]

Rich,
When the nut for my forward tank bolt vibrated loose once about a year ago ( I happened to notice it while at a stoplight), I rode straight over to Home Depot. In the "fastener's" isle is a large chest high cabinet of sliding drawers filled with both metric and american zinc plated hardware.
Take the old bolt in with you and match yourself up a replacement nut. All the bolts, washers, lock washers, nuts, and nylock nuts are there. You might have to do a little poking through the drawers as stuff tends to get tossed around a bit. Slap it all together in the parking lot and be on your way.
I also agree with the others regarding your difficult shifting. Sounds very much like  a simple clutch adjustment. Always start with the simple stuff anyway.
Nice trip report by the way.
I spent the weekend upstate in the 'gunks myself. Covered about 360 miles. The bike was a joy throughout.
Chuck.

[wildbill]

all good advise here. i remember on my first c5 i had similar gear change problems but once the clutch play was sorted out - everything was fine.

[Ducati Scotty]

If the clutch adjustment doesn't do it, see how much you can move the gear shift in and out.  It shouldn't be much, less than 1/4".  If it's more than that you may want to remove the lever and stack up washers to limit the movement.  Some members here have had success with this, it can clear up the shifter slop.  It just pulls the pieces of the mechanism together.  Leave a little play.

When you get home, pop the right side engine cover and check the linkage.  It will be right there plain as day, something may be obviously bent.

Scott

[Rich Mintz]

Just to clarify, if my shifting problem (inability to reach the lowest gears) is due to clutch adjustment, is it likely that I have too much play in the clutch, or too little?

[Ducati Scotty]

Most likely too much.

Scott

[barenekd]

The clutch adjuster will be likely to have too much play, You can tighten the cable to very nearly zero slack with no problem.
The tank bolts should be available at any decent hardware store.
As for the shifter, make sure your shift lever isn't snagging on anything, but as Ducati Scottie said, Check the end play on the shift shaft. If there is any put as many 3/4" washers behind your shift lever as will fit without getting tight. I had to put a couple under mine, but it cured a lot of shifting ills. If that doesn't cure it, then look and the fork and tang under the timing side cover and see if it looks like it working right. This is the interface between the shift shaft and the gearbox. They have been known to suffer damage from a variety of reasons. Usually dropping the bike on the gear leaver or even stomping on the shifter too hard can bend it. If it isn't there, then you may have to get it torn down.
Bare

[Rich Mintz]

After a day of riding a bike with no first gear around Washington, DC, can I just say that it is a real pain in the a** to have to start off in second or third gear from EVERY stoplight?

[wildbill]

try a few of the above suggestions. i know its annoying but you have nothing to loose and it might solve your drama.
here's hoping, all the best.

[Arizoni]

I assume you've adjusted the clutch?  To do that you just loosen the three nuts (two jam nuts and one single nut ) on the left engine case, slightly tighten the nut on the forward side against the aluminum case until the cable is at the right adjustment and then tighten the other two nuts.

Is there any noticeable "in and out" movement to the shift lever assembly?

In one case the shift lever shaft allowed the lever and shaft to move a lot towards the side cover.  Like the others said, putting some washers between the pedal and the side cover to keep it from moving in solved that problem by keeping a shifting fork inside the engine engaged with the linkage that shifts the gears.

[JVS]

Personally, I've noticed that even a little adjustment to the clutch play makes a lot of difference to the shifting on my B5. 3mm approx. gives the best results on my UCE. 

[Rich Mintz]

I adjusted the clutch -- I tried it tighter (less play) and looser (more play). I learned what the difference was. Tighter (less play) means less friction zone -- which is actually easier on the hands. I didn't like it SO tight that there was a razor-thin edge between "clutch engaged" and "clutch released," but I left it tighter than I had it before.

Unfortunately, it didn't solve my problem. I still can't get below 2nd gear.

I'll try the other suggestions here this weekend.  There didn't seem to be a lot of in-and-out play in the shift lever but I'll see if one washer makes a difference.

[BRADEY]

why can't this be the headache of your dealer, than yours 

[Rich Mintz]

I don't trust my dealer. They're a small shop and only sell a few Enfields a year. For something like this, I'd take it to Gold Coast on Long Island which, come to think of it, is probably what I should do. But I'll try all the recommendations on this thread first.

[mattsz]

Rich, as Kevin Mahoney made clear to me, ANY dealer should honor the warranty - you aren't wedded to the place you bought the bike.  Might not be the easiest thing to manage, but surely there's a trustworthy option near you?  Ask the guys here recommendations!  Anyway, if you find someplace to take your bike, you've still got your scoot to ride...

I'm curious myself, now, to know if you can shift gears off the bike, with the motor off...

[Rich Mintz]

No, I can't shift gears off the bike with the motor off either.

[gashousegorilla]

  Take it in.......

[Kevin Mahoney]

If you want to shift the bike without it running/moving put it up on the center stand so you can spin the rear wheel with your hand. The transmission relies on movement for the dogs of one gear to mesh with the other. Trying to shift it while standing still and no engine running will rarely be successful.

The odds of having something wrong with the transmission proper are almost zero. If you look in the parts book you will see that it is a collection of shafts and gears that move back and forth. They are shifted by forks which in turn are moved by a cam plate. It is moved by some linkage and two forks which are moved by the shift shaft.
If you have a problem shifting it is 99% either clutch adjustment, shift technique or shift mechanism problems.
1. Adjust the clutch per the book. The UCE clutch is nowhere near as fussy as the 4 speed clutch when it comes to adjustment
2. Put the bike on the center stand and shift through the gears while turning the rear wheel as mentioned above. See if it will do into all gears.
3. If yes them look at technique. If not maybe a linkage problem assuming the clutch is adjusted properly .
4. Technique - this is mostly in cases where you hit false neutrals. If you look in the book you will see that each gear has three dogs on the side which mesh with the next gear when they are shifted. If you shift like you do a Japanese bike (tap the shifter) you will run into this problem. When you look at how the transmission actually shifts you can see that as you begin the shift the high parts of the dogs will run against each other. You may think that when that happens you have made the shift. You have not. A moment later as further pressure is applied the dogs will lock together as each finds the locking recess in its opposite gear. You need to shift firmly and hold it for a moment before you release the shift lever. In an hour or so you will do it automatically and not even know you are doing it.

[Arizoni]

I know Rich has ridden the bike a lot on short trips and thru the streets of New York and he didn't mention a real problem with shifting into 1st or 2nd gear until he rode the bike to Washington DC.
He mentioned that he had adjusted the clutch and that didn't seem to help.

The foot pedal shaft doesn't move axially appreciably so it is unlikely that the arm on the other end is disengaging from the rest of the shift linkage.

From my armchair it would seem that either the selector cam, the pins that engage it or the shift forks that move the gears is damaged.

I know a lot of our members have taken the old separate gearbox that's on the Iron Barrel and the AVL apart but with these UCE bikes it means the entire engine has to be taken apart to get at the shift devices.  That's why I mentioned that this is not a job for most home mechanics.

[Kevin Mahoney]

Now I fully understand the problem. GET OUT OF DC. Nobody that works in that town can find their ass in the dark much less get in gear. Your bike is catching the disease starting with first gear.

this is a job for a good dealer,

[Rich Mintz]

Thanks, Kevin. I'm back home in NYC now.  I'll tinker a bit more, and if I can't solve it myself, I'll take it either to Gold Coast on Long Island (which has a good informal reputation) or to the dealer in Sloatsburg, which I know does volume sales. Both are inconvenient but I bet either one could fix it right. In the meantime, the bike is drivable, so I'm fine.

[Michael Marsceill]

Just an opinion. Formula One Motorsports (Long Island branch) is a high volume motorsports dealer and probably sells only a few Enfields a year. However, they have a guy there named Mike Depallo, who handles the Enfield line. Long time Enfield enthusiast and mechanic. I'd give him a try.

[Gypsyjon]

No, I can't shift gears off the bike with the motor off either.

Owners manual says not to even trying shifting with engine off, if memory serves.

[Rich Mintz]

Today I checked again, very carefully, with the clutch adjusted both tight and loose. With the motor off and the bike on the center stand and the clutch engaged, I was able to shift freely between 2nd and 5th gear, but not any lower.

I took off the shift lever and inspected; there doesn't seem to be anything unusual going on. There's no unexpected looseness in the mechanism that I can tell, and shifting from 2nd-5th is perfectly normal, with no trouble engaging the gears normally.

Bike is perfectly driveable, but I'd like to have a professional mechanic look at it before I take another long trip. I'm going to call Formula One and make an appointment.

Regarding everything else: I got new fasteners, which I'll describe on this thread:
http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,16592.0.html

Thanks all.

[Rich Mintz]

Of the 4 dealers in my area, 2 have been disrecommended to me and the other 2 are too busy. So before I call the 2 disrecommended ones, tonight I'm going to take the casings off left and right (one at a time) and look at the linkage. Removing the casing and looking is a level of mechanical work that I'm comfortable with. There's a bit of advice in this thread already about what to look for, and perhaps the problem will be obvious.

[barenekd]

There is nothing in the primary side that would effect shifting. The shaft just passes through there. The timing side cover is the one you need to get into.
Bare

[Kevin Mahoney]

He is right. Put the bike up on the center stand so you can move the wheel and take a look while you shift.

[Rich Mintz]

Thanks guys, will let you know what I find

[gashousegorilla]

 Rich, there is a dealer out in Lebanon NJ.... 'bout an hour west of the City by round valley. Rt 78 to Rt 22. Rolling fast cycles, i believe they are called? I have No opinion on them though, as I do my own work.  But I did buy an old cb 750 from them a few years back, and they seemed honest and straightforward. 

[Arizoni]

The left hand case doesn't have anything in it that would effect the shifting.  Only the shift lever shaft running thru it.

I suggest you use Singhg5's method of drawing a picture of the right side cover on a piece of cardboard with a hole for each screw.  Then, when you remove the screw poke it into the corresponding hole.
These screws are different lengths and it's easy to get them mixed up.

[mattsz]

I suggest you use Singhg5's method of drawing a picture of the right side cover on a piece of cardboard with a hole for each screw.  Then, when you remove the screw poke it into the corresponding hole.
These screws are different lengths and it's easy to get them mixed up.

+1.

Rich, I recently did this to change my drive sprocket.

When I pulled the cover, everything was in order and obvious, except a black plastic spacer dropped to the floor.  It was the "gear lever shaft spacer" which affects the gear shaft's sideways play that was mentioned here earlier.  Mine seemed to have mildly deformed to fit the space it filled, but it looked intact enough to me, and I had just a hair over 1mm shaft play, that I just re-used it.

Have a care and you probably could re-use the gasket.  I had the job planned in advance so I had a spare on hand.  Where the wires for the "magneto assembly" (parts catalog wording) passed through the seam between engine and cover, there was some silicone sealant which cause the gasket to try to adhere to the cover rather than the engine side (IIRC), so watch for that if you're going for gasket re-use...

[jkrobin]

Rich,

Not sure if you have sorted out your dealership/shop search, but I can highly recommend Cycle City up in Sloatsburg, NY. The GM (Andy Abbene) really takes care of folks.