Author Topic: Mikuni TM32  (Read 15139 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Mike_D

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 186
  • Karma: 0
on: May 23, 2013, 01:03:05 pm
Well I was going to dink around with my VM34 -- clean it, jet it -- when I thought I'd just go ahead and buy the TM32 flatslide.  I'm hoping to fireball anyway and I'd like something new for the summer so I am going for it.  I found one on Amazon here:

http://www.amazon.com/Mikuni-Flat-Valve-Carb-TM32-1/dp/B000GV7S7Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1369310225&sr=8-1&keywords=mikuni+tm32

It seems quite cheap -- a good deal, no?  Does it come with everything I need (other than the right jets obviously)?  What jets should I be looking to run in this thing?  I've got a 2003, Iron Barrel, Ace Canister, and plan to put on a gold star exhaust (currently have an Indian exhaust, not the stock one though).  No modifications to the engine as of yet.  I'm at sea level.  Thanks for your help guys, cheers.


AVL Power!

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 454
  • Karma: 0
Reply #1 on: May 23, 2013, 01:14:32 pm
133USD for a TM32 sounds pretty good! I think the stock TM32s come with 260 mains and 50 pilot.

I think for 500cc RE you will need the following Jet Specs for TM32

MAIN JET 4/042-Size 190 or 200
PILOT JET VM22/210-Size 27.5 or 30
NEEDLE JET 785-24001-Size (389) Q-2 (Stock, comes with the carb)
JET NEEDLE 5FP17 Clip groove #3 (Stock, comes with the carb)
STARTER JET VM17/1002-Size 60 (Stock, comes with the carb)

By the way, what jets are you using for the VM34. I am also using a VM34 from past 1 year or so and really happy with it! :D

-Sanket


Mike_D

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 186
  • Karma: 0
Reply #2 on: May 23, 2013, 01:44:01 pm
Hey Dampking thanks.  I've got a 195 main and a 30 pilot jet in my VM34.  I couldn't see the number on the needle and didn't take it out so unsure about that.


D the D

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,174
  • Karma: 0
Reply #3 on: May 23, 2013, 05:14:21 pm
Powersports Superstore is an good dealer with discount pricing.
Sudco has charts that show what jets and needle the carb comes with. Likely you'll need to change them.  http://www.sudco.com/mikuni3.html
Here's the Mikuni tuning guide which explains common stuff like backfires, signs of rich/lean etc.  All stuff you can can read in threads on this board.
http://www.mikuni.com/fs-tuning_guide.html
« Last Edit: May 23, 2013, 05:25:38 pm by D the D »
'07 Iron Barrel Military (Deceased 14 September, 2013)
2014 Yamaha Bolt R Spec V-Twin
1975 XLCH


Chuck D

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,378
  • Karma: 0
Reply #4 on: May 23, 2013, 05:23:08 pm
Ace "Fireball"#10 (Beefy the Bullet to her friends.)
 "Featherbed" frame by Rofomoto.

2017 Triumph T120


Mike_D

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 186
  • Karma: 0
Reply #5 on: May 23, 2013, 05:46:58 pm
It was the above thread that got me thinking I'd like to go in this direction.  I'll buy the carb today and hit you all up later when I'm sorting it out.  Thanks!


Guaire

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,981
  • Karma: 0
Reply #6 on: June 01, 2013, 07:11:12 pm
I ordered one of the flat slides. I'll be using dampking's jet specs to set up before I run it.
 After 700 miles in two days, I woke up to find the header pipe bracket had broken. My welder will take care of it.
  I'll be cleaning the canister. I hope that clears up my oil problem. One I get to it, I'll post a pic of my 'duckbill'.
ACE Motors - sales & administration


ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,457
  • Karma: 1
  • World leaders in performance/racing Bullets
Reply #7 on: June 01, 2013, 08:10:52 pm
Depending on the season and your bike, it will probably need a P6 needle jet, or close to that.
The Q2 that it comes with is way too rich for us.

And you guys need to be remembering that the manifold needs to be one that fits with the TM32 too. The stock manifold is 28mm, and it can't really be bored out to 32mm, or the wall thickness will be paper thin.
If any of you need manifolds, we make an alloy one which is the correct size on the I.D. and the O.D. and it will use a short piece of 1.5" I.D. radiator hose and a pair of band clamps for the connector.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 08:15:31 pm by ace.cafe »
Home of the Fireball 535 !


Guaire

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,981
  • Karma: 0
Reply #8 on: June 02, 2013, 12:17:35 am
Ace - The current carb is Mikuni VM34mm. I just replaced the manifold from nfield. Will that one fit?
ACE Motors - sales & administration


ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,457
  • Karma: 1
  • World leaders in performance/racing Bullets
Reply #9 on: June 02, 2013, 03:14:50 am
Ace - The current carb is Mikuni VM34mm. I just replaced the manifold from nfield. Will that one fit?

Yes, that one will fit.
Home of the Fireball 535 !


Guaire

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,981
  • Karma: 0
Reply #10 on: June 05, 2013, 03:37:30 am
The TM32 arrived today. As dampking posted the jets and all were as he listed. I have on order a Main, a Pilot jet and as Ace suggested, a needle jet P6. At least my carb problems will be gone.
ACE Motors - sales & administration


D the D

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,174
  • Karma: 0
Reply #11 on: June 05, 2013, 08:38:43 pm
Guaire,
After you sort it all out be sure to post your final jetting in the thread "Jetting Redeux" (Redux for the old school) in the Tech Section.  It will make life easier for others down the road.
D
'07 Iron Barrel Military (Deceased 14 September, 2013)
2014 Yamaha Bolt R Spec V-Twin
1975 XLCH


High On Octane

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,075
  • Karma: 0
Reply #12 on: June 06, 2013, 01:43:37 pm
Make sure you also post what altitude you ride at.  Altitude is a huge factor in tuning carbs.  There will be big differences between a proper sea level tuning and a proper tuning for people who live in the mountains like myself.

Scottie
2001 Harley Davidson Road King


Mike_D

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 186
  • Karma: 0
Reply #13 on: June 08, 2013, 06:53:28 am
OK, got the carb in as well as the Goldie exhaust. 

First impressions -- it idles better (had a vm34 in before) and sounds great.  It was a little hard to start though and on my little ride around the block it seemed to be lacking in power and struggled in high rpms.  I had a hard time finding a good jetting start point on the board but went with a P6 needle, 30 pilot and a 190 main.  Needle is in the original position.  I'm at sea level and am using an ace canister.  Engine is stock otherwise...Does this jetting sound OK for a start point?  I'm willing to do plug chops just would like to have the correct jets around before I start.  Any suggestions?  Thanks.


ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,457
  • Karma: 1
  • World leaders in performance/racing Bullets
Reply #14 on: June 08, 2013, 12:26:13 pm
OK, got the carb in as well as the Goldie exhaust. 

First impressions -- it idles better (had a vm34 in before) and sounds great.  It was a little hard to start though and on my little ride around the block it seemed to be lacking in power and struggled in high rpms.  I had a hard time finding a good jetting start point on the board but went with a P6 needle, 30 pilot and a 190 main.  Needle is in the original position.  I'm at sea level and am using an ace canister.  Engine is stock otherwise...Does this jetting sound OK for a start point?  I'm willing to do plug chops just would like to have the correct jets around before I start.  Any suggestions?  Thanks.

It might be useful to try some richer main jets, to see what it likes at the full throttle positions.
Normally, the stock bikes like it richer than a Fireball, because the stock heads don't have the same kind of features to improve atomization, so they tend to need richer jetting because they waste a lot of it. So, I'd have a 195 on hand, and maybe even a 200.
The carb itself is capable to flow about 30% more than that stock head can flow, so it's not holding you back in any way. It just needs tuning. Your jetting is quite close to correct now, and so you're not far off.

Also, don't forget the ignition timing. It will want as much advance as you can give it without pinging. Advance it until it just pings on an uphill grade, or hard acceleration, and then retard it just a hair to avoid the pinging. Then, if it kicks back when starting, retard it just a hair more to avoid kickbacks.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 12:28:51 pm by ace.cafe »
Home of the Fireball 535 !


Mike_D

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 186
  • Karma: 0
Reply #15 on: June 09, 2013, 11:54:21 pm
Thanks Ace!  I dinked around with it again today.  Put a 195 main in and  took her out for a longer ride just to try and feel where I'm at.  It idles well, pulls away nicely but sputters and loses power around 1/2 to 3/4 throttle.  When I got back the head seemed hotter than usual leading me to think I'm running lean.  Unfortunately, I do not have the richer P8 and raising the needle didn't help (and boy does that spring on the flatside drive me nuts!).

I have a boyer mark4 and haven't touched it since I bought the bike.  It has always run well, started in the first few kicks, never pings so I figured the timing was set and best left alone.  I'm assuming that changing the carb and exhaust shouldn't effect the timing right?  And frankly, I do not even know how to adjust the Boyer -- same as points?  Move the plate counter clockwise to advance?

It's going to be a pain to find a place to do plug chops in New York City so I'd like to have all my ducks in a row before I head out to wherever to do this.  I'd like to do it only once.  Anyone familiar with New York have any ideas where I do these chops without putting my life in danger?


D the D

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,174
  • Karma: 0
Reply #16 on: June 10, 2013, 05:36:16 pm
Clockwise to retard, counterclockwise to advance the timing (as you face the plate).
Going from too lean to a good needle and jets setting (rich enough) enabled me to advance the ignition.  YMMV as every engine/carb/fuel/environment combo makes it only generally predictable.  Otherwise, there'd be one setting posted and no one would have all this fun of dialing in!
'07 Iron Barrel Military (Deceased 14 September, 2013)
2014 Yamaha Bolt R Spec V-Twin
1975 XLCH


ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,457
  • Karma: 1
  • World leaders in performance/racing Bullets
Reply #17 on: June 10, 2013, 06:09:13 pm
Well, I can tell you that there are several fellows using this same carb with basically those same jets in NYC with Fireballs, and they are doing great.
So, maybe it is timing, or maybe you could try the P8 and/or a richer needle position.
As I mentioned, sometimes the stock head likes a little richer than the Fireball does.

Or, you might need to tweak the ignition timing. Or maybe do both.
This is what tuning is all about.
Home of the Fireball 535 !


Mike_D

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 186
  • Karma: 0
Reply #18 on: June 10, 2013, 06:33:34 pm
Got it!  P8 is on the way.  If it ever stops raining I'll fiddle with the timing in the meantime.


Guaire

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,981
  • Karma: 0
Reply #19 on: June 15, 2013, 05:42:04 pm
I got the 32mm flatslide installed. If anyone gets one be sure you get a 'right' one. The choke on mine is on the left, not right side. The gas inlet in on the right, not left side. This is the opposite of the older round slide. I don't know if there's an option of different sides, but if you can get a mirror layout carb, get that one! Can't do any riding yet. Gotta get a new duckbill. and get my header bracket welded.
Working on it!
Bill
ACE Motors - sales & administration


ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,457
  • Karma: 1
  • World leaders in performance/racing Bullets
Reply #20 on: June 15, 2013, 07:15:38 pm
I got the 32mm flatslide installed. If anyone gets one be sure you get a 'right' one. The choke on mine is on the left, not right side. The gas inlet in on the right, not left side. This is the opposite of the older round slide. I don't know if there's an option of different sides, but if you can get a mirror layout carb, get that one! Can't do any riding yet. Gotta get a new duckbill. and get my header bracket welded.
Working on it!
Bill

As far as I have seen, they are all "Left" ones with the choke knob and fuel inlet like yours.
It's a PITA to operate the choke knob, but if it is too aggravating to do that, you can order the remote operating cable from Sudco to convert it to work off of a cable and handlebar lever.
Home of the Fireball 535 !


Mike_D

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 186
  • Karma: 0
Reply #21 on: June 15, 2013, 11:54:54 pm
So I got the p8 and finally got some time to put it in this morning and no, definitely not going to run on a p8.  Good thing I've got some other jets so I put in a p4 and yes!  That's the right direction.  It's still a little sluggish so in goes a p2 and now things are seeming great.  It's got a 180 main in and I'm wondering if I could go leaner there as well.  Got the needle in the mid position but may try leaning that out when I get a chance cause it still seems a little off.  Basically, it seems like I'm going to have a jetting very close to, if not the same, as Chucks fireball.  I still want to do plug chops but I'm going to have to find the time to get over to Jersey where I can find the space to do them......

I have a left choke too.  Sounds like they are all this way.  It's annoying but on the plus side I'm hoping it will discourage me from tinkering with the idle and air screws.  I seem to be always messin with them.....


ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,457
  • Karma: 1
  • World leaders in performance/racing Bullets
Reply #22 on: June 16, 2013, 12:43:44 am
So I got the p8 and finally got some time to put it in this morning and no, definitely not going to run on a p8.  Good thing I've got some other jets so I put in a p4 and yes!  That's the right direction.  It's still a little sluggish so in goes a p2 and now things are seeming great.  It's got a 180 main in and I'm wondering if I could go leaner there as well.  Got the needle in the mid position but may try leaning that out when I get a chance cause it still seems a little off.  Basically, it seems like I'm going to have a jetting very close to, if not the same, as Chucks fireball.  I still want to do plug chops but I'm going to have to find the time to get over to Jersey where I can find the space to do them......

I have a left choke too.  Sounds like they are all this way.  It's annoying but on the plus side I'm hoping it will discourage me from tinkering with the idle and air screws.  I seem to be always messin with them.....

Well, you're pretty lucky to be able to go that lean with a stock head.
Not typical, but it shows that it's doing better than typical.
Plug chops would be a very good idea.

Be advised, and listen closely for any ping.
Home of the Fireball 535 !


Guaire

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,981
  • Karma: 0
Reply #23 on: June 16, 2013, 03:20:32 am
IT RUNS!!
I got the flat slide installed and fixed the duckbill. I went for a start. Put the choke on. Not much happened. I pulled the plug and it was wet. I kicked it over to blow out the gas. Turned off the choke, and ONE KICK, pow, it started. I blew out some smoke. I believe my broken header bracket might also be a hole! (I'll get it fixed this week.)
  In the driveway I adjusted the air and idle. I got geared up and went out to pick up my carry out dinner. The engine feels better. I'm getting a bit of pops on deceleration, maybe the pipe. The clear duckbill tubing isn't filling up with oil, finally! Lots of improvements all at once.
  Even during warm up, looking at the exhaust, I'm rich all over. Right off idle, I'm getting a chuff, a puff of exhaust smoke, [rich]. When I would blip the throttle, more puff.
  I'm running a 27.5 pilot, a 190 main, P6 needle jet and the stock needle [5FP17?].
  But, overall the motor is noticeably improved. The power band is positive across the whole rev range. The old big 34mm was happiest with a handfull of throttle. This one feels good all over.
  Would a leaner needle give a leaner overall effect?!
Cheers,
Bill
ACE Motors - sales & administration


Guaire

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,981
  • Karma: 0
Reply #24 on: June 16, 2013, 03:27:55 am
BTW, my 2004 Bullet ES 500 is a 535cc.
ACE Motors - sales & administration


Chuck D

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,378
  • Karma: 0
Reply #25 on: June 16, 2013, 11:40:31 am
Thanks Ace!  I dinked around with it again today.  Put a 195 main in and  took her out for a longer ride just to try and feel where I'm at.  It idles well, pulls away nicely but sputters and loses power around 1/2 to 3/4 throttle.  When I got back the head seemed hotter than usual leading me to think I'm running lean.  Unfortunately, I do not have the richer P8 and raising the needle didn't help (and boy does that spring on the flatside drive me nuts!).

I have a boyer mark4 and haven't touched it since I bought the bike.  It has always run well, started in the first few kicks, never pings so I figured the timing was set and best left alone.  I'm assuming that changing the carb and exhaust shouldn't effect the timing right?  And frankly, I do not even know how to adjust the Boyer -- same as points?  Move the plate counter clockwise to advance?

It's going to be a pain to find a place to do plug chops in New York City so I'd like to have all my ducks in a row before I head out to wherever to do this.  I'd like to do it only once.  Anyone familiar with New York have any ideas where I do these chops without putting my life in danger?
Hi Mike,
Try Floyd Bennett Field at the end of Flatbush Avenue in Brooklyn.
http://www.nyharborparks.org/visit/flbe.html
It used to be an airport back in Lindy's day. Now it's just miles of empty runways and paved fields.
Chuck.
Ace "Fireball"#10 (Beefy the Bullet to her friends.)
 "Featherbed" frame by Rofomoto.

2017 Triumph T120


ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,457
  • Karma: 1
  • World leaders in performance/racing Bullets
Reply #26 on: June 16, 2013, 01:00:47 pm
IT RUNS!!
I got the flat slide installed and fixed the duckbill. I went for a start. Put the choke on. Not much happened. I pulled the plug and it was wet. I kicked it over to blow out the gas. Turned off the choke, and ONE KICK, pow, it started. I blew out some smoke. I believe my broken header bracket might also be a hole! (I'll get it fixed this week.)
  In the driveway I adjusted the air and idle. I got geared up and went out to pick up my carry out dinner. The engine feels better. I'm getting a bit of pops on deceleration, maybe the pipe. The clear duckbill tubing isn't filling up with oil, finally! Lots of improvements all at once.
  Even during warm up, looking at the exhaust, I'm rich all over. Right off idle, I'm getting a chuff, a puff of exhaust smoke, [rich]. When I would blip the throttle, more puff.
  I'm running a 27.5 pilot, a 190 main, P6 needle jet and the stock needle [5FP17?].
  But, overall the motor is noticeably improved. The power band is positive across the whole rev range. The old big 34mm was happiest with a handfull of throttle. This one feels good all over.
  Would a leaner needle give a leaner overall effect?!
Cheers,
Bill

Maybe it's just the very hot weather that is causing the need for these leaner jettings. It will want leaner in the hot.
Anyway, if you want to try a leaner needle, it's a 6DP17. That gives you a condition which is 2 grooves leaner than the normal 5FP17 needle. So basically it's like the top groove of the 5FP17 is like the middle groove of the 6DP17. So, you get 2 more grooves in the lean direction with the 6DP17.

It seems you also might want to try the P4 or P2 needle jet, and a 185 main.

I'd wait until you fix the exhaust leak before doing any leaning of the jetting.
Home of the Fireball 535 !


Mike_D

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 186
  • Karma: 0
Reply #27 on: June 17, 2013, 05:48:17 pm
Yes!  Floyd Bennet Field!  Thanks Chuck.


Guaire

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,981
  • Karma: 0
Reply #28 on: June 23, 2013, 02:07:33 am
Got my header repaired. I have a good welder guy! Here's a look at the plug after just a four mile ride. Main = 190. Pilot 27.5, Needle jet = 785-24001-P-6, Needle = 5FP17.
Finally, I see a plug that isn't black, slimy or sooty.
I'm trying to get back to base line. I changed the oil, gearbox oil. Next, I'll tighten the chain.
ACE Motors - sales & administration


ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,457
  • Karma: 1
  • World leaders in performance/racing Bullets
Reply #29 on: June 23, 2013, 11:56:39 am
I wouldn't try going any leaner than that.
Home of the Fireball 535 !


Guaire

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,981
  • Karma: 0
Reply #30 on: June 23, 2013, 03:21:54 pm
It's does look close to the edge. I'll richen the air screw for a start. When it stops raining I'll take a run on the local George Washington Parkway, take a look at the plug, check the mileage.
ACE Motors - sales & administration


High On Octane

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,075
  • Karma: 0
Reply #31 on: June 23, 2013, 04:23:54 pm
Your plug looks pretty good, but I agree with Ace, I definitely would not go any leaner.  You might want to do some throttle chops just to make sure your carb is tuned evenly though out the throttle ranges.

Scottie
2001 Harley Davidson Road King


Blltrdr

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,079
  • Karma: 0
  • cycle-delic music
Reply #32 on: June 23, 2013, 06:04:47 pm
Looking at the coloring on your plugs ground strap you should advance your timing a bit. You want the color line on the strap to be on the apex (center of bend) of the ground strap.
2003 Classic 500 5 spd
2009 HD FLHT Police 103 6 spd
1992 Kawasaki ZG 1200 Voyager XII


Guaire

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,981
  • Karma: 0
Reply #33 on: June 30, 2013, 02:26:10 am
  I got the front header bracket welded and had the back bracket setup. What little I drove.... not starting right away when cold, coughing and spitting.... I needed to get richer than the 27.5 pilot jet. Today I ordered a 30 pilot jet. I had a 35 that I changed in. I was trying to get a couple of miles to a parking lot to dial in the air and idle screw. I rode for about 2 miles and kept stalling at idle. Finally got it going. Got to a parking lot to see what was going on.
  As I would turn over the motor with the kick lever, I heard a whirr whirr, like a wind up car or something. I got towed home since I could feel something on the clutch side of the primary. In the driveway I opened the primary. No problems. The plug looked a little bit richer in the photo prior to this. Without the plug in, I could feel the cylinder suck and blow. With the plug hole open, I kicked the motor over. It goes whirr whirr. I can feel it in my hand on the transmission/kick starter case.
  I will have to wait 'til tomorrow to open the transmission case. Any ideas what this could be?
Thanks,
Bill
ACE Motors - sales & administration


Guaire

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,981
  • Karma: 0
Reply #34 on: June 30, 2013, 02:43:32 am
By the way, it's a 5 speed with RH shift.
ACE Motors - sales & administration


Mike_D

  • Bulleteer
  • ***
  • Posts: 186
  • Karma: 0
Reply #35 on: August 08, 2013, 10:49:08 pm
Can't believe it's taken me this long to follow up on this...busy summer!  But I did make it to Floyd Bennet field thanks to Chuck D and gotta say I had a blast doing plug chops.  I had been scared off by them previously but it's pretty self explanatory and very insightful.  I highly suggest them to any Iron Barrel owner.  It gives the rider a good "feel" of what rich and lean feel and sound like and allows one to really dial the bike in.  After trying many combinations I ended up sticking with the p2 needle jet and 180 main.  I did maybe 200 miles with that set up but felt it still wasn't running right so I dropped the 30 pilot for a 27.5 and BAM that was it.  This was all during the heat wave (upper 90's and lot's of humidity) and the cooler weather has me thinking I may go up to the P4 just to see.  It's been fun dialing the bike in this summer.  Ended up advancing the ignition slightly and seem to have the bull running better than ever.  I did have a breakdown on a trip up to bear mountain -- it took me hours to figure out the electric ignition had ungrounded itself -- but I FIGURED IT OUT.  I love these bikes.