Author Topic: Oil change ....And that 2nd drain hole plug (Read 8353 times)

wildbill · **on:** March 10, 2013, 07:39:38 am

Well after a mention on this forum about the 2ND drain hole plug ( excluding the mesh filter one) for the oil I decided to give mine an oil/filter change.
It had been a bit over 3,000kl or around the 2,000 mile mark since the last one.
Nothing new to report on the oil change itself - oil was dirty with very little metal filings.
Now as for that second drain hole. Once the oil was out of the main drain hole, mesh filter plug and the right side oil filter cover I replaced all the plugs etc and had a go at the front end plug.
So to cut a long story short - this hole produced another 250 mils of oil

tooseevee · **Reply #1 on:** March 10, 2013, 02:52:43 pm

Quote from: wildbill on March 10, 2013, 07:39:38 am

Well after a mention on this forum about the 2ND drain hole plug ( excluding the mesh filter one) for the oil I decided to give mine an oil/filter change.
It had been a bit over 3,000kl or around the 2,000 mile mark since the last one.
Nothing new to report on the oil change itself - oil was dirty with very little metal filings.
Now as for that second drain hole. Once the oil was out of the main drain hole, mesh filter plug and the right side oil filter cover I replaced all the plugs etc and had a go at the front end plug.
So to cut a long story short - this hole produced another 250 mils of oil

The AVL also has multiple drain plugs. The first time I drained my oil back in January 2011 I laid my garage mirror underneath to be really sure what I was looking at. If I hadn't looked I might have drained only one.

singhg5 · **Reply #2 on:** March 11, 2013, 02:17:00 pm

Quote from: wildbill on March 10, 2013, 07:39:38 am

Well after a mention on this forum about the 2ND drain hole plug ( excluding the mesh filter one) for the oil I decided to give mine an oil/filter change.

So to cut a long story short - this hole produced another 250 mils of oil

That is significant amount of oil coming out of right side of crankcase (13%) by using 'second' drain plug, considering it takes only 1.7 litres to replenish bikes without this extra oil drain hole.

@Wildbill - What year and model is your bike ? When did RE start 'second' drain plug in UCE bikes ?

barenekd · **Reply #3 on:** March 11, 2013, 04:56:08 pm

Quote

That is significant amount of oil coming out of right side of crankcase (13%) by using 'second' drain plug, considering it takes only 1.7 litres to replenish bikes without this extra oil drain hole.

Just be rocking the bike back and forth several times I've replaced a little over 2 liters every time. The "new" plug is actually under the crankshaft, not the right side.
Bare

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #4 on:** March 11, 2013, 11:32:14 pm

Quote from: barenekd on March 11, 2013, 04:56:08 pm

Just be rocking the bike back and forth several times I've replaced a little over 2 liters every time. The "new" plug is actually under the crankshaft, not the right side.
Bare

Same here. I can drain about 1.5 qts without rocking, about 2 with rocking. It's really not that much of a hassle once you know to do it. I'd rather rock it a few times than pull another bolt out.

Scott

mattsz · **Reply #5 on:** March 11, 2013, 11:44:03 pm

Well, last time I changed my oil, I drained, then rocked, and didn't really get any more oil out of it. Maybe I'm not understanding the procedure?

With the bike on the side stand (the center stand interferes with my drip pan), I removed the plug and held the bike upright and drained as much oil as would come. Then I think I put the plug back in, as I couldn't tip the bike with the drip pan beneath it, and tipped the bike as far over as I dared without dropping it, and held it there a few seconds, then did the same the opposite way, then tried to drain more. Was I just moving the extra oil from the left side of the engine to the right, and not getting it in the middle to drain properly? Sorry if this is remedial...

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #6 on:** March 12, 2013, 12:03:58 am

Make sure the engine and oil are hot, not warm, HOT.

First put the bike on the center stand. Remove the oil fill plug, drain plug, and filter screen and plate. Leave them all out for the entire drain procedure. Let it drain until it stops. Take it off the centerstand carefully and rock it back and forth from side to side several time. Once it's leaned over one way hold it there for at least 10 seconds. Lean it the other way, hold for 10 seconds. Repeat several times until the oil stops draining. You should here more oil coming out when you lean it to one side, I forget which one. When no more oil comes out you can stop rocking it.

Scott

wildbill · **Reply #7 on:** March 12, 2013, 12:10:27 am

singhg5

It's a 2012 C5 chrome - straight front fork model.
I had the previous c5 chrome with the off set fork but was unaware if it had the 2ND plug or not.
If I had not read about it here first - I would not have bothered to check.
I'd already done 3 oil/filter changes and never thought about it

mattsz · **Reply #8 on:** March 12, 2013, 12:39:43 am

Scotty - what are you draining your oil into where you can have it up on the center stand, take it off the stand and rock the bike, all the while catching whatever comes out? My oil drain is so close to the center stand when down that I can't get anything under the drain without holding it in place against the stand, which is in the way. Then when I push the bike to get it off the center stand, my container is either in the way or getting pushed around or knocked over.

Maybe I need to buy a giant heavy-duty rimmed baking sheet that can go under the engine space, stand and all, and just use the stand as usual right on the pan?

barenekd · **Reply #9 on:** March 12, 2013, 01:19:57 am

I always rocked mine on the center stand. I could lean it over pretty far as the CG was always over the centerstand foot.
Bare

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #10 on:** March 12, 2013, 01:40:08 am

I just have a big open oil drain pan, maybe 18" across. It's right up against the stand and I just take it down off the stand slowly using the front brake and it doesn't really get pushed around.

Scott

squire · **Reply #11 on:** March 12, 2013, 01:52:03 am

Quote from: barenekd on March 12, 2013, 01:19:57 am

I always rocked mine on the center stand. I could lean it over pretty far as the CG was always over the centerstand foot.
Bare

That's what I do as well, works for me.

Ragmas · **Reply #12 on:** March 12, 2013, 03:10:35 am

I like scotty's method, if I may add a twist though. Start the whole prodecure on the side stand, (seeing as how I took mine off, I have to) drain for a bit, then get on the bike and pretend you are going around some really long winding curves. Nice and gentle like see? Easing from left to right in a slow and stately manner. If it helps, put a fan in front of you and let the wind blow through your hair, or scalp, or hat, or whatever. You could also make a giant back drop that rolls by on a motorized scroll type device. You know what I mean. Have fun while doing your chores. Oh, don't forget the tunes while you work.

Samgar

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #13 on:** March 12, 2013, 07:15:26 am

You method is way more imaginative than mine

BRADEY · **Reply #14 on:** March 12, 2013, 07:45:38 am

Boy does RE Change its design quickly or what ??
My 2010 C5 has a secondary drain plug which is
placed exacly oppsite to the primary plug. This secondary
plug is only with magnet and has no mesh, it is located on
the other half of the crank case (towards the clutch side).

In the new models, they seem to have placed it just below
the crank...............

meph1st0 · **Reply #15 on:** March 12, 2013, 03:13:22 pm

Bradey, are you sure there is no mesh. I have a 2009 UCE 350 and it has a mesh. Also both the plugs are in same location in wildbill's bike.
Why would there be so much difference between 350 and 500
Scotty, What is the logic behind having engine and oil hot before draining. Is it not easier to remove the oil if all of it has settled at the bottom along with the dirt?

idk · **Reply #16 on:** March 12, 2013, 04:01:23 pm

Hot oil will flow quickly and smoothly. Cold oil will flow like honey. It will come out better when it is hot.

meph1st0 · **Reply #17 on:** March 12, 2013, 04:38:11 pm

Isn't hot oil more thick and difficult to flow?

Jack Leis · **Reply #18 on:** March 12, 2013, 05:16:56 pm

NO !!!

barenekd · **Reply #19 on:** March 12, 2013, 05:52:08 pm

Quote

Isn't hot oil more thick and difficult to flow?

Where did that idea come from? If it's from the 15W50 rating, that expresses what the oil flows like at extreme temperatures. At 50 degrees, the oil will flow like 15 wt oil would which is a lot faster than 50 wt oil would, because the viscosity of the oil changes. As the oil heats up the viscosity number also is climbing and the oil doesn't thin any more keeping the flow rate basically the same as the cold oils. When it is hot (180^o) the viscosity is 50, where a single rated 50 wt oil flow rate would be, but when cold, the single rated 50 oil would be like sludge draining out.
The flow rate of the oil at a given tempurature determines the viscosity. A straight weight oils flow rate would change considerable as the temp goes up (faster) and down (slower). A multi grade oil will more or less flow at the same rate regardless of the temp. Hence, hot oils are better when it comes to draining, even if it is a multi grade oil. The cold multi grade is almost as fast draining but still has a bit more "cling" to the parts it's draining from.
You also want the oil to contain the particles as the engine drains, If you wait for the oil to cool off the particulates will have settled to the bottom of the pan and may not flow out with the oil.
Bare

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #20 on:** March 12, 2013, 06:03:06 pm

Quote from: meph1st0 on March 12, 2013, 03:13:22 pm

Scotty, What is the logic behind having engine and oil hot before draining. Is it not easier to remove the oil if all of it has settled at the bottom along with the dirt?

As already mentioned, hot oil flows better. And you don't want the crud at the bottom. You want the crud churned into the oil so it flows out with it during the drain.

Scott

gremlin · **Reply #21 on:** March 12, 2013, 07:24:07 pm

Quote from: Ducati Scotty on March 12, 2013, 06:03:06 pm

....................You want the crud churned into the oil so it flows out with it during the drain........

+1

meph1st0 · **Reply #22 on:** March 13, 2013, 03:49:03 am

Thanks guys, that makes it clear

Enfield Pro · **Reply #23 on:** March 14, 2013, 07:47:13 pm

It was introduced about a year ago.

Arizoni · **Reply #24 on:** March 14, 2013, 11:13:19 pm

Someone must have thought it was needed.
Adding the new plug was a casting change and reworking casting tooling isn't cheap not to mention the logistics of revising orders and inventory.

It also required creating new part numbers, drawings and tooling for the revised parts machining, new engine assembly, motorcycle assembly, parts book and maintenance manuals not to mention the new plug and gasket.

mplayle · **Reply #25 on:** March 15, 2013, 04:03:30 pm

Apparently not all recent models are using the second drain plug. My 2012 C5 Military has the spot in the casting for it, but it has not been drilled/tapped - still solid, no plug.

Kevin Mahoney · **Reply #26 on:** March 15, 2013, 04:30:36 pm

I am coming into this late but the reason is to allow more oil to drain during an oil change

Royalista · **Reply #27 on:** March 15, 2013, 11:30:26 pm

But still need to rock the motorcycle to release the last bits. Or do I see this wrong?

Arizoni · **Reply #28 on:** March 16, 2013, 12:00:32 am

Probably.
The oil in the sidecases will still have to be rocked out unless they improved the drainage between them and the main oil sump.

Kevin Mahoney · **Reply #29 on:** March 16, 2013, 05:44:50 pm

This releases quite a bit more of the oil as do some other internal modifications (about 1/2 liter I am told). I guess you can still rock some more out but I think that might be approaching obsessive. However ones mans obsession is another mans......

b.sheets · **Reply #30 on:** March 16, 2013, 06:40:10 pm

Quote from: mplayle on March 15, 2013, 04:03:30 pm

Apparently not all recent models are using the second drain plug. My 2012 C5 Military has the spot in the casting for it, but it has not been drilled/tapped - still solid, no plug.

mine too, wonder if you could do something about this?

RE-Memphis · **Reply #31 on:** March 17, 2013, 04:18:54 am

Quote from: mplayle on March 15, 2013, 04:03:30 pm

Apparently not all recent models are using the second drain plug. My 2012 C5 Military has the spot in the casting for it, but it has not been drilled/tapped - still solid, no plug.

Ditto.

There was a second screw under the ?primary chain? Single screw with long spring.

In all main drain, mesh filter, drive chain w spring.

Today changed the oil and did a lot of rocking. Then moved on to some awesome riding!
Ijpe

mplayle · **Reply #32 on:** March 17, 2013, 03:14:24 pm

Finally reached the 300 mile break-in point and am ready to do the first oil change. I was hoping mine had the second drain plug as rocking with a sidecar is rather difficult for one person.

Time to get creative about positioning in order to get the rocking done.

barenekd · **Reply #33 on:** March 17, 2013, 06:45:20 pm

Quote

Apparently not all recent models are using the second drain plug. My 2012 C5 Military has the spot in the casting for it, but it has not been drilled/tapped - still solid, no plug.

Yeah, you could drill and tap it. I'd make it the same size as the rear drain. Grease the drill and tap to catch as many chips as you can. Might want to flush it with a bunch of kerosene when you're done
Bare