Author Topic: Iron barrel gearbox apart  (Read 516 times)

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stinkwheel

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Reply #15 on: April 07, 2024, 05:46:44 pm
That layshaft bushing is toast. There's one on the other end inside the kickstart pawl assembly so I'd have a good look at that too. Also the end of the shaft where it fits in the bushings Was it picking up and moving the kickstart under power in gear?

You have to wonder how that degree of wear happened, like there's side load on the layshaft? I wonder if the layshaft and mainshaft are straight. If they are, you then have to wonder if the layshaft bushes are concentric and I'm not 100% sure how you'd check that. I even wonder if the gearbox was bolted together off-centre or if one of the casings is warped or just drilled wrong.

Or could the gear operator or the pin it pivots on be bent/warped, pushing the forks down against the gears as well as sliding them across?

Your selector notches look WAY better than the ones on either of my bullet gearboxes, even after modification.

Worth cleaning off the gear clusters and having a damned good look at them for chipping/wear anyway.

Checking the shafts for straightness may be tricky. Supporting them between centres and rotating them would be one way, removing the gears and checking against a known flat/straight reference surface would be another but would require removing all the gears which isn't necessarily straightforwards. Never done it myself.

Or the bullet way, fit new bushes (readily available and fairly inexpensive), throw it back together and hope it lasts another 4 years.

I think a good first step would be to de-grease the whole lot in solvent and have a really good look for wear and witness marks than might point you at what is happening.


Jur

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Reply #16 on: April 07, 2024, 06:17:21 pm
Thx AzCal, shift misalignment, come to think of it. After removing the first outer casing, I found that 2 screws of the inner casing were so loose the could me manualy turned. Two others were mildly loose. Still strange that that happened, but might explain how the shaft could have been slightly tilted torqued forwards, and gave extra strain on the bushing.

Fair point Stinkwheel, thx, will give it al clean and check it out. Do you think the shafts could be bend when the bike runs great at 55mph, no (abnormal;) shaking? Cruises great. I had a ever so slightly uneven flywheel on my vw camper once. Shaked everytime i operated the clutch. LIke a tremor going trough the whole van. I know this is a very different part, but would't you expect some effect from (even slightly) bent parts? Everything interacts. Well, you know were im going, checking it by eyeballing and try 'the bullet way' what else can i do;)  ;D

Well everything is back in the shed. Another week of work and then hopefully some time to ponder and fix. In the meantime a will be on the look out for parts.


stinkwheel

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Reply #17 on: April 07, 2024, 06:47:08 pm
Well, a misaligned inner cover could well cause that sort of wear so if nothing else is obvious, it's probably what I'd go for. Occums razr and all that. It could have been wallowing about in use, there's nothing much beyond it being buttoned up tight that keeps it all aligned.

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AzCal Retred

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Reply #18 on: April 07, 2024, 10:33:58 pm
" Or the bullet way, fit new bushes (readily available and fairly inexpensive), throw it back together and hope it lasts another 4 years."  ;D ;D ;D

Parts are cheap, clearances are generous...maybe the PO got the Lo-Dollar india brass bushings instead of the bronze ones? Install new bushes, polish the high spots off the shaft, slap it back together, fill the box up with tractor grade 85W140 and go about your business. These aren't Space Shuttles and that's likely what some 1940's Brit Coal miner would have done. These machines are pretty durable once sorted.
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.


Jur

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Reply #19 on: April 12, 2024, 07:39:05 pm
Well, did the degrease today 8) Must be the original Veedol (aluminium coloured sirup). The gearbox wasn't 'dry' that's for sure.. Added a few pics, the end of the lay shaft (The bush of the low gear pinion) looks like it has thread on it (just like the inner bush) so something must have been grinding in there. The rest of the gears look pretty good to me. No excessive wear if i compare them to pictures of the guts of other gearboxes ::)

Just on the left side of the bushing there is an imperfection/sharp piece of steel (egg shaped drawing in the pic to mark it out) Perheps a fragment of that got caught (although i searched the oil and could not find anything in there..) Well, i will grind it off before i put everything back in order, just to be on the safe side there. But first, order another package from England to Holland. The things on the picture nr 24 and 25 seems to be what I need. That and some other stuff. 8) Will have to check how to get it off without damaging the shaft and pinion 1st gear. Well... work in progress.


Jur

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Reply #20 on: April 12, 2024, 07:42:11 pm
layshaft


Jur

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Reply #21 on: April 12, 2024, 07:43:57 pm
and the rest of the pictures


Jur

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Reply #22 on: April 12, 2024, 07:45:09 pm
bushings


Jur

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Reply #23 on: April 12, 2024, 07:46:04 pm
and the last one


stinkwheel

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Reply #24 on: April 12, 2024, 08:27:53 pm
Wow, that bronze bushing! I'm not sure how that even happens? It's amazing the gears were meshing at all.

How is the one on the other end inside the kickstart? Some are bronze, some are cast iron. If it's cast iron and you're putting in an order, now seems like a good time to swap it out. The cast iron one will eventually start picking up on the layshaft and rotating your kickstart down under power.

Say what you like about an albion gearbox, I can't think of many other motorcycle gearboxes that would have been still basically working with that amount of damage/wear.


Jur

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Reply #25 on: April 12, 2024, 09:10:59 pm
Thx Stinkwheel. Yeah strange how that goes, pretty amazing it does its job up to a point so far out.. happy thumping (55 miles per hour, for 30 miles, just three weeks ago;) not a care in the world. But on the inside of the gearbox a grinding party. Well ill put an order out. I think this is the part you refer to? haven't checked yet, but better safe than sorry.


stinkwheel

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Reply #26 on: April 12, 2024, 10:42:53 pm
Yeah, part 33 on that diagram. Hitchcocks part number H15 https://accessories.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/20627

Might already have one and if it's still round, you're all good. My cast iron one took a bit of removing. I eventually landed up drilling it until it was really thin then breaking it out. Had to ream the new one slightly once it was sweated in using a homemade flap wheel (bit of steel tube with a slot in in an electric drill with a strip of emery paper in the slot).

This reminds me, I blogged stripping my gearbox, changing the layshaft bush and fitting trials gearing on the old forum. Complete with lots of pictures. Might come in handy:

https://messageboard.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12432


AzCal Retred

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Reply #27 on: April 12, 2024, 11:34:18 pm
I'd toss the mainshaft sprocket side bearing too. The cage looks a bit beat up. Chunks inside the bearing racewaty are bad news. In for a penny...
A trifecta of Pre-Unit Bullets: a Red Deluxe 500, a Green Standard 500, and a Black ES 350.