Author Topic: Noobie is shopping... (Read 18756 times)

mattsz · **on:** July 31, 2012, 02:17:34 am

Hi all-

Trying to decide about which one to buy! I like the solo look of the C5, but luggage/rack capacity seems limited. I like the G5 (esp the British Racing Green!), but with a solo seat, the rear "sub-frame" is exposed and it's not pretty (saw a post on this somewhere here). I've seen a pretty nice B5 mod with solo seat and rack, too.

I want to have a rack that rests just behind a solo rider, not one that sticks out behind a double seat...

Anybody have any ideas? What are my options these days?

GlennF · **Reply #1 on:** July 31, 2012, 02:28:53 am

Scrambler style unsprung solo seat and a factory rack (maybe off a C5) fitted to my B5.

The B5 has a square deep set valanced rear fender which I think suits the straight rack.

Jack Leis · **Reply #2 on:** July 31, 2012, 03:16:16 am

www.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com has a nice rack for the G5 with a solo seat .Comes in black or chrome and bolts to the rear seat mount.

Jack Leis · **Reply #3 on:** July 31, 2012, 03:20:03 am

GlennF , I really like your seat !

hortoncode3 · **Reply #4 on:** July 31, 2012, 11:18:11 am

I would like a link to that G5 seat. Hitchcocks online catalog is a pain in the butt..even better, I would like to SEE this seat and rack on a G5. I bought one for mine and instantly hated it. Never even took it for a ride. This after I spent 2 hours trying to figure out how to mount it as, once again, it did NOT come with mounting instructions. I still have a tank rack that I'm trying to figure out...no instructions with that, or hardware.

mattsz · **Reply #5 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:13:50 pm

Hi guys! Thanks for the replies:

Quote from: GlennF on July 31, 2012, 02:28:53 am

Scrambler style unsprung solo seat and a factory rack (maybe off a C5) fitted to my B5.

(photo)

The B5 has a square deep set valanced rear fender which I think suits the straight rack.

GlennF, yours is the nice B5 mod I was talking about! I'd be surprised if that rack is made for a C5, since it seems to fit your B5 so well and the fenders and fender supports are so differently shaped, but I can't see very clearly how it's attached, so maybe. The up-swept back end is very pleasing. The seat looks good, too bad about the gap between it and the tank. But this is just the kind of thing I'm looking for! Do you know where you got that rack?

Quote from: Jack Leis on July 31, 2012, 03:16:16 am

www.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com has a nice rack for the G5 with a solo seat .Comes in black or chrome and bolts to the rear seat mount.

Jack - which rack is it? 92541 on page 114 (of the current online catalog)? Looks good, very functional, but perhaps a bit utilitarian?

Hortoncode3, maybe that seat was made to fit the B5? The G5 has a different frame, which shows rather unattractively when the dual seat is removed...

barenekd · **Reply #6 on:** July 31, 2012, 06:46:58 pm

The rack GlennF has is for the old Classic (Iron Barrel) models which has the same frame as the B5. The C5 doesn't have those tp tubes on it. The guys fortunate enough to have the B5 are well ahead in availability of accessories, because all the old classic stuff fits them!
Bare

mattsz · **Reply #7 on:** July 31, 2012, 09:27:11 pm

The C5 has different rails on it. I found a link to RE Australia with a photo of a very similar rack for the C5. Can't grab the pic, but here's the page:

http://www.royalenfieldaustralia.com/bullet_efi.php

The rack is shown on a red C5 about 1/3 down the page...

bluesdaddy2 · **Reply #8 on:** August 01, 2012, 02:49:23 am

Quote from: mattsz on July 31, 2012, 09:27:11 pm

The C5 has different rails on it. I found a link to RE Australia with a photo of a very similar rack for the C5. Can't grab the pic, but here's the page:

http://www.royalenfieldaustralia.com/bullet_efi.php

The rack is shown on a red C5 about 1/3 down the page...

I contacted the Aussie site about that same rack. They quoted me $70 for the rack & $52.50 to ship. I went with the nfieldgear rack # Z91110. The pic isn't the greatest but it gives you an idea.

mattsz · **Reply #9 on:** August 06, 2012, 12:45:22 am

I'm looking at a couple of bikes from a couple of different east coast dealers, and I'm finding some differing info from each of them, and from the dealer experiences of many of the posters here. Some of the info is technical in nature, but also wildly conflicting! So:

What is the proper first-service mileage recommendation (I've heard 300 miles, but also 500 miles)?

What should come with the bike - Tool kit? Spare parts or inner tube? Owners manual?

The India spec manual I downloaded offers the first four services free (labor)! Anybody seeing that, or similar, in North America?

What should I be asking a dealer who wants my business?

Arizoni · **Reply #10 on:** August 06, 2012, 01:12:19 am

Speaking of the new fuel injected UCE's sold in America the first service is at 300 miles (or 500 kilometers).

The bike comes with an Owners Manual that gives most of the important data like service intervals and what's needed at each one, recommended lubricants, and a number of listings showing how to do the routine maintenance.
The tool kit leaves a lot to be desired but it should contain the plastic bag, a short "Tommy bar" that's used with the "Tubular spanner (21 & 24mm), a screw driver, (5) open end wrenches (spanners) a 10mm & 13mm, 8mm & 10mm, 14mm &15mm, 22mm & 24mm, 1/4" & 5/16".
3 Allen keys (socket head wrenches) 3mm, 5mm, 6mm and two fairly crummy tire removing levers.

Along with this it should have a spare Speedometer cable, a spare clutch cable and 1 inner tube.
The dealer also included one small spray can of black paint with my bike.

In the US, I would expect most of the dealers to charge for the services any time they are done.

For most owners of a new RE the needed services are things that can easily be done by the owner if he/she has a few tools, a place to work on the bike and access to this web site.

What to ask a dealer? That's a tough one.
There is very little mark up on these bikes so it is very unlikely that you will get a discount on the base price. You could ask them if they would be willing to throw in a crash bar or a luggage rack. These are very inexpensive items at retail prices so the dealer might be willing to throw them into the deal.
Aftermarket seats, headlights and silencers are more expensive so they might not be willing to dicker on them.

All in all, my 2011 has only needed a chain and a few light bulbs in over 6000 miles of riding.

I hope I've answered your questions?

mattsz · **Reply #11 on:** August 06, 2012, 01:45:30 am

Thanks, Arizoni!

Yes, that was helpful. No dealer I've spoken to has offered any of the tools or spares you mentioned. One has insisted that 500 miles is the first recommended service, and when I asked another about the C5's recent switch from the 18" front wheel to the 19" to improve stability, as has been described on this forum, he claimed that in fact the opposite is the case - the front wheel was changed to 18" for that reason. Who do you believe?

When I mentioned "what to ask the dealer", I wasn't thinking in terms of how to dicker for a price - I should have been clearer! I guess I was looking for advice about things I might have missed regarding service and/or support - I live three hours away from the closest dealer which has a bike I'm interested in, so my shopping has been via email...

Arizoni · **Reply #12 on:** August 06, 2012, 03:06:38 am

Well, first off, the tools come in the motorcycles tool box which is a part of the bike. It's not like he was going to give you a box with tools in it off of his shelf.

I suppose it wouldn't be nice to suggest to the dealers who don't know about the C bikes change to a 19 inch front wheel that maybe they should call Keven Mahoney, the man who imports the RE to the US (and owns and runs this forum) and ask about it.
This front wheel and fork change does not effect the B and the G bikes because they already have a 19" wheel on the front and there is no telling when they might get the new front fork (if ever).

As my dealer said to me when I first talked to him about Royal Enfields, (paraphrasing) "Do you know how to work on a motorcycle? These bikes aren't like the Japanese bikes where you just ride them. They require some maintenance that most people do themselves.
They are better than the older models like the Iron Barrels and the AVL's but you have to keep after them."

I can sympathize with you about the distance to a dealer.
If something major happens to the bike that needs warranty service it could be a real PITA just getting the bike shipped to a dealer for the repair.

This was one of the reasons I held off on buying a RE at first and it was only when a new dealer opened up fairly close that I went ahead and bought mine.
He later closed up his shop and moved back to Austria but he (and Kevin) was good enough to set up another local shop to do warranty service.

I can't speak for Kevin but it might be possible to work something out with a local repair shop and him if something disastrous happens that needs major engine or transmission parts replaced. Maybe not.

I can say that in over a year here on the forum I've only heard about maybe 4 or 5 bikes that actually required warranty service to fix something major.

mattsz · **Reply #13 on:** August 11, 2012, 10:53:56 pm

Some fuel questions:

What octane grade (U.S.) of fuel do these engines need? Seeing some differing information...

Any fuel treatments recommended? One owner of the same 70's bike I currently have carries octaine booster, ethanol treatment, and lead substitute for every fill-up! He's a rolling refinery, and I don't wanna end up like him!

TWinOKC · **Reply #14 on:** August 11, 2012, 11:35:45 pm

Quote from: mattsz on August 11, 2012, 10:53:56 pm

Some fuel questions:

What octane grade (U.S.) of fuel do these engines need? Seeing some differing information...

Any fuel treatments recommended? One owner of the same 70's bike I currently have carries octaine booster, ethanol treatment, and lead substitute for every fill-up! He's a rolling refinery, and I don't wanna end up like him!

The owners manual says unleaded 87 RON or higher. I use regular gas (alcohol free)but if it is not available ethanol 87 octane works fine, never used any fuel treatments.

mattsz · **Reply #15 on:** August 11, 2012, 11:49:41 pm

Quote from: TWinOKC on August 11, 2012, 11:35:45 pm

The owners manual says unleaded 87 RON or higher. I use regular gas (alcohol free)but if it is not available ethanol 87 octane works fine, never used any fuel treatments.

Is that the US spec? I assume it must be, based on your location.

The 2012 C5 India spec manual I downloaded says "use high-quality high-octane petrol (91 octane and above) for enhanced performance." But that could mean any number of things...

I asked "my dealer" about needing 91 (which my current bike needs), and he said I could get away with using 89. He also said, "Since the EFI system is closed from the atmosphere , it is less prone ethanol problems than the carb bikes." But he always uses ethanol treatment.

No ethanol-free fuel available where I live, but there is a garage nearby that has "racing fuel" - supposedly 110 octane! I have a buddy with an old Vincent, and he mixes the 110 and standard 91 to custom blend his own octane...

jartist · **Reply #16 on:** August 12, 2012, 01:13:42 am

No need for ethanol free gas or treatment. Stock enfields have a relatively low compression ratio and regular unleaded works fine.

TWinOKC · **Reply #17 on:** August 12, 2012, 01:57:09 am

UCE compression is only 8.5 to 1. In my opinion premium fuel is not needed but it only costs another 50 cents or so to fill up so it doesn't really matter.

mattsz · **Reply #18 on:** August 12, 2012, 04:40:39 am

Thanks guys!

Quote from: jartist on August 12, 2012, 01:13:42 am

No need for ethanol free gas or treatment. Stock enfields have a relatively low compression ratio and regular unleaded works fine.

I'm glad to hear about the "low test" gas, but my concern about the ethanol is different altogether. The problem where I live with all ethanol all the time is that it's killing engines that weren't built for it, especially the small ones like lawnmowers, outboards, generators, etc. The rubber in the fuel system components can't handle it, as I understand, and gas treatments are very important, especially for any engine that will be sitting unused for any length of time (some say even a week of disuse is enough. Not sure why stationary ethanol gas will hurt a fuel system but moving ethanol gas won't, but that's another question for another time).

Do they add ethanol to their fuel in India? Do they use ethanol-proof parts on bikes made in India? Inquiring minds want to know!

jartist · **Reply #19 on:** August 12, 2012, 05:50:42 am

There's 10% ethanol in all gasoline sold in California by law. I've had no problems at all in my enfield. The fuel injection seems to have less problems with pump gas and gas sitting in tanks because there's no fuel bowl float seats or small jets to clog.

mattsz · **Reply #20 on:** August 12, 2012, 12:22:39 pm

Excellent! I think I'm ready to take the plunge! What could go wrong?!?

Oh, yeah. The other bike sitting in my garage. Sigh...

barenekd · **Reply #21 on:** August 12, 2012, 07:06:00 pm

+1 Gas will not be much of an issue. Some complain about the ethanol. I don't like it, but it gets put in the bike every time with no issues. My spark plug has 11,000 miles on it and looks like it did at 1,000. I'm still averaging about 70 MPG.
As for the first service, it is 500 KM or 300 Miles.
Most things that go wrong with an Enfield are owner activated. I plead guilty to that one. I have had very few factory built, mostly loose things. Nothing has stopped me from getting home. Or even on road repairs.
Bare

Arizoni · **Reply #22 on:** August 12, 2012, 08:49:37 pm

I may be wrong but I know the computer system is Japanese and I'm pretty sure the injector and fuel pump also come from there.

The Japanese have been designing their fuel injected cars to deal with the alcohol in American gasoline so it's a logical thought ( I think) to assume the fuel related parts on the RE would be gasohol resistant too.

So far, I've heard of several fuel pumps giving up but no problems with the injectors. (fingers crossed).

Tri750 · **Reply #23 on:** August 13, 2012, 12:45:01 am

In Cali , we get a winter blend and a summer blend of something resembling gasoline. One is bad, the other is worse. Either way, we suggest 87 regular. Even in 110 degree heat, no pinging or knocking. Just the nice purt,purt,purt,purt...........
There are several methods octane is calculated. RON, MON, AKA, confusing.

GlennF · **Reply #24 on:** August 13, 2012, 12:53:33 am

Ethanol blends have several issues in motorcycles but if your Enfield is your daily ride it should not be a huge issue.

The main problems relevant to bikes are:

- ethanol kills two stroke engines, the ethanol prevents the two stroke oil adhering to critical parts causing rapid engine wear. The bullet is not a two stroke so no worries here

- ethanol attack some rubber parts and certain seals in the fuel system, mainly an issue with older and classic or vintage bikes.

- ethanol fuel tends to separate into layers of fuel, water and ethanol if left sitting in the tank too long. It is much more prone to seperation than normal gas. This is not an issue for your "daily ride" but if your Enfield regularly sits in the shed unridden for longish periods add some fuel stabiliser.

mattsz · **Reply #25 on:** August 13, 2012, 02:48:55 am

It will be my daily rider -

someday...

while the riding is good. I'll have to store it at some point in the winter...

mattsz · **Reply #26 on:** August 13, 2012, 12:21:14 pm

Been looking at photos...

The side stand seems to be rolled tubing, stamped into shape. It looks just like the laundry hamper frame my mom got at the five-and-dime.

Is it as bad as it looks?

gremlin · **Reply #27 on:** August 13, 2012, 01:47:28 pm

Quote from: mattsz on August 13, 2012, 12:21:14 pm

Been looking at photos...

The side stand seems to be rolled tubing, stamped into shape. It looks just like the laundry hamper frame my mom got at the five-and-dime.

Is it as bad as it looks?

Nope, matter-of-fact it is excessively beefy (solid). But, I never use it anyway. I'm thinking about removing it.

mattsz · **Reply #28 on:** August 13, 2012, 02:51:58 pm

Thanks Gremlin!

I must admit, between your tell-it-like-it-is replies and your self-imposed physical description (6'8" tall & fills interior doorways, I believe you said), I've been rather frightened of you!

But I'm over it, now... I think!

Anyway, I'm pretty sure I'm going to go all B5 on everybody, so I'm grateful for the subset support!!! Mostly hands-off, "we got one here somewhere, sure we'll sell it to you -- whad-a-ya-mean what comes with the bike -- you want the first service after how many miles?" dealerships within a 5-hour radius of me, so I'm feeling like I really have to do my research...

gremlin · **Reply #29 on:** August 13, 2012, 06:34:15 pm

Feel free to call bull*shit on me when I'm wrong ..... As I am in this case !

Just checked it during lunch ..... you are correct ! the sidestand is a squashed tube.

It still seems beefy enough to me.

Old age & senility ...... my #1 excuse.

barenekd · **Reply #30 on:** August 13, 2012, 08:09:02 pm

The side stand is quite stout. I abuse the hell outta mine and it hangs in there.
However, it is about an inch or so too short for the G5s, probably the B5s, too. The lean angle alone is total abuse to the stand! And me and my lack of legs trying to get it off the side stand whilst astride the motorcycle is a joke, particularly is the stand is on the downhill side. I put a big inch plus plumbing extension on mine and that makes all the difference. Ugly as hell, but it works.
I tried to figure a way to do it neatly, but the options were few and rather a PITA.

Arizoni · **Reply #31 on:** August 13, 2012, 08:42:28 pm

Except for visual appearances, nothing wrong with a squashed tube if it is designed right.

Their strong and light weight and inexpensive to make.

mattsz · **Reply #32 on:** August 13, 2012, 10:51:48 pm

Thanks for the side stand info, guys!

I mentioned winter storage a few posts back - no need to go into a big discussion about it here; I can read up on the specific requirements of putting the bike to bed for the winter. But briefly: my storage will be an unheated garage. Is it good enough? What kind of trouble might I expect?

I live in midcoast Maine, where we often have real winters...

mattsz · **Reply #33 on:** August 14, 2012, 12:52:55 am

I may be trailering the bike, and I'm having trouble finding a consistent spec for the overall length of the B5. I'm looking for the length from the furthest point forward (the front tire, I suppose) to the furthest point aft (the taillight box? The silencer?)...

I will probably have access to a 6'x4' trailer, with 24" tall sides and a permanently attached 48" tall tailgate. The bike won't fit straight on, but it may fit on the diagonal, if I keep the tailgate cracked open just a bit...

GlennF · **Reply #34 on:** August 14, 2012, 12:55:07 am

I always assumed the excessively leaning side-stand thing was an Indian fetish for bikes parked at a jaunty angle, a bit like they are obsessed with "thump" .

I will also try and measure my B5 if i get a chance.

barenekd · **Reply #35 on:** August 14, 2012, 10:49:53 pm

My G5 is about 81" long, but I have bobbed rear fender so I'd guess about 85" if all were there. Tire sizes and such will change the different models overall length an inch or two. Now how worn out the chain is will again vary an inch or two. Probably 86" should cover most variables.
The owners manual length is 85".
It should squeeze in there.
Bare

mattsz · **Reply #36 on:** August 14, 2012, 11:44:46 pm

The diagonal of the trailer is 86 inches. The tailgate is small angle iron with steel mesh - it's got some give to it. I'm thinking I can set the bike in on the diagonal and strap it down, then lash the tailgate up as high as it will go - even if it's at 45 degrees it would be ok. No?

barenekd · **Reply #37 on:** August 15, 2012, 12:34:23 am

When you turn the front wheel, that should give you enough room to get the panel down. It will be close. On the other had you probably won't have to tie it very tight!

You can rotate the rear fender up and probably give yourself another couple of inches or so, if it's a C5 or B5.
Bare

mattsz · **Reply #38 on:** August 15, 2012, 01:00:12 am

From another thread:

Quote from: gremlin on August 14, 2012, 11:35:07 pm

After reading about all these mechanical problems ........ I'm thinking I need to carry my riding tools in a chase-van.

Don't say that, Gremlin! You're makin' me nervous!

Can I change the subject heading? To "Noobie has shopped?" There's a new 2011 B5 with my name on it!

Only 5 hours away...

But on the weekend that I'll be down south (in NH!) visiting family, the dealer who sold me the bike is traveling up to NH for an auto race weekend; he's offered to get the bike all prepped and bring it in his race-car trailer - it's much closer and easier for me to pick up. From there I can do some initial break-in riding and then drag it home.

That's pretty good service, yes?

motorat · **Reply #39 on:** August 15, 2012, 03:23:28 am

my c5 fit in the back of a standard 6' bed ranger. i had to put the front wheen in the right corner and go diagonal but the tailgate closed and did not hit the bike.

gremlin · **Reply #40 on:** August 15, 2012, 03:43:19 am

Quote from: mattsz on August 15, 2012, 01:00:12 am

That's pretty good service, yes?

Yes & Congrats!
Welcome to the B5 fraternity !

barenekd · **Reply #41 on:** August 15, 2012, 05:48:49 pm

Quote

From there I can do some initial break-in riding and then drag it home.

Drag it!! You are going to miss the great breakin opportunity of riding it home? All those great roads and you're gonna miss em. Fie, Fie on you!
Congrats on the new bike though, You're gonna love it.
Bare

mattsz · **Reply #42 on:** August 16, 2012, 02:38:11 am

Can't be helped, Bare!

It's a *long* trip at 35 mph in summer tourist traffic, and we can't be sure my wife can make the drive home in the car (illness makes it an iffy proposition). The dealers all have assured me I don't want to do it anyway - but they're wrong!

I will have a day or two to put a good handful of miles on the bike before the dealer (who as you may recall is delivering the bike closer to me) heads back south - so if I have any major problems, he can help me cope...

Tri750 · **Reply #43 on:** August 16, 2012, 05:04:41 am

To back up a few pages, at our school, first service is at approx. 500 miles.
You'll get the toolkit in the bike, a box with a cable or two, a big or small spray can of paint, a big shiny wrench, an extra key, an inner tube, and an owners manual.
For storage, battery tender, run it with Sta-Bil, if your in a salty or humid storage, maybe cover the bike with watercraft fogging oil.
Watch out for rodent damage .
Ask the dealer: was it prepped with full synthetic oil?

mattsz · **Reply #44 on:** August 16, 2012, 10:27:35 am

Tri-

Turns out, one sales guy told me 500 miles, "my" guy later corrected him by saying that it's 500 kilometers, or 300 miles. Most everyone else here is saying 300 miles also.

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is your school? Are you suggesting that I should wait until 500 miles?

I'll ask about the oil, but what do I do with the answer? Should it be prepped with full synthetic? Or should it not? I might be able to request one way or another, if it's not done yet - I don't pick the bike up for another week-and-a-half...

Tri750 · **Reply #45 on:** August 16, 2012, 03:38:56 pm

The new dealers school held by Scooterbob and Kevin. I work at a BMW/Enfield dealer in Cali. When the Cali models came out,we were one of the first to take them on and have had great success and fun with the little chuffers! We were told 500 miles, so we stick with that. Sooner is icing on the cake. Yes, the same school told us 100% Syn. Oil, motorcycle specific.

mattsz · **Reply #46 on:** August 17, 2012, 12:46:30 am

Tri-

My dealer agrees that it must be motorcycle oil since it's for the engine, clutch and transmission. But he "wouldn't run synthetic oil until after the break in is done (approx. 1000 miles)." As often happens, the more people I ask, the more conflicting opinions I get.

What is the difference? Is synthetic that much better for the bike over the first 300-500 miles? What would be the benefit of starting with non-synthetic (dino?) and changing over later? Question for my guy, I know...

GlennF · **Reply #47 on:** August 17, 2012, 12:50:48 am

Quote from: mattsz on August 17, 2012, 12:46:30 am

What would be the benefit of starting with non-synthetic (dino?) and changing over later? .

I think the theory is that the running in period is when the rings seat and you get a good seal and synthetic oil doesn't allow the parts to wear enough to seat properly.

Tri750 · **Reply #48 on:** August 17, 2012, 12:59:40 am

I dont want to step on toes, but if the US importer, the one who approves every warranty claim and has years of experiance with these bikes here and abroad says run full syn. I would run full. Syn. Im sure there are people all over the world that run dino and much worse, but for the US market, the big guy says Syn.
Perhaps your dealer didnt go to the dealers orientation or read Scooterbobs tips and tricks.
I'll let this subject go.

mattsz · **Reply #49 on:** August 17, 2012, 01:05:15 am

Found this oil change thread: http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,14430.msg153482.html#msg153482 . Will look elsewhere for info as well.

Quote from: GlennF on August 17, 2012, 12:50:48 am

I think the theory is that the running in period is when the rings seat and you get a good seal and synthetic oil doesn't allow the parts to wear enough to seat properly.

GlennF, that sounds promising to me...

Arizoni, are you here? In another thread, you said:

Quote from: Arizoni on May 21, 2012, 09:59:11 pm

Some will say that a full synthetic oil should not be used during the break in period but IMO they will also work fine.
Their lubricity is not much higher than semi-synthetic oils so the piston rings and other moving parts will break in all right.

The semi-synthetic, synthetic and diesel oils are made for higher temperatures that are often present in an air cooled engine. Some of the regular NON-synthetic petroleum oils might tend to form hard carbon in areas that exceed 400 degrees F and the underside of the piston crown, the top piston ring and the exhaust valve shank can occasionally get that hot.

Does this follow with what GlennF said?

The second part really caught my attention, as I have recently suffered a *severe* pinging problem with '75 BMW R60/6, and I don't want to go through that again! Carbon buildup everywhere! Is it likely that carbon buildup could be a problem with the break-in engine speeds and loads?

Tri - point taken! The question is, what to do about it? It's rhetorical, don't answer...

mattsz · **Reply #50 on:** August 17, 2012, 01:19:06 am

I looked for scooterbob's tips and tricks - didn't find it. Is this a thread on this forum?

Tri750 · **Reply #51 on:** August 17, 2012, 03:12:03 am

If the engine is built (clearances) to run on synthetic from new, like so many are these days, and the mother ship says so. The BMW's, about half come out of the box requiring full synthetic new. The oil/air cooled boxers still want Dino. The mother ship says until that particular engine breaks in.10-12k miles, then synthetic is an option. Either way, the oil change interval stays at 6k. Not any longer with Syn.
None of the RE's we've sold, prepped, or serviced using full syn.have ever used a drop of oil. We use mainly BMW 15/50 or Amsoil 20/50.
Full break in on the RE motor by the book is several thousand miles, but we're talking initial set up and first service.
The old BMW airheads of that era were very common to get carboned up or ping like crazy. Never found out why. That was before I drank that flavor kool-aid.

Arizoni · **Reply #52 on:** August 17, 2012, 03:23:20 am

mattsz
Although I am far from an oil expert I have a background in gas turbine and jet engines.
These run synthetic oils exclusively but they are not the run of the mill automotive/motorcycle oils. They are quite specialized but much of that comes from the need to operate in very low temperatures. They also have a number of places where very high temperatures exist around the bearings so high temperature resistance is needed.
As for the ability of the synthetic oils of all types of synthetic oils, both jet engine and automotive, to withstand higher temperatures I have no doubts.

Some regular oils contain oil molecules that have fairly low temperature resistance and will carbon up fairly easily. I feel these should be avoided, especially in an air cooled engine.

My 2011, G5's owners manual specifies using a "semi-synthetic" oil at all times including break in.
Because a full synthetic oil is less likely to break down from high temperatures (read, less hard carbon), in my opinion, anything a semi-synthetic oil can do, a full synthetic oil can do better.

A lot of people think the synthetic oils provide better wear protection and for that reason they often say these oils should not be used during engine break in.
Again, in my opinion this has more to do with the oil additives that are in the oil than it does on whether the oil is a regular dinosaur type or synthetic type.

Perhaps it's giving a plug for the regular types of oil during break in, but there is no doubt that the full synthetic oils are the premium oils on the market and they undoubtedly have the best anti-wear additives. Even so, I think things that are newly machined and rubbing together like a cylinder bore and piston rings will wear in nicely even if a full synthetic oil is used.

The important thing to remember with the Royal Enfield and other motorcycles that have wet clutches and full gearboxes that are lubricated by the engine oil is their oil must contain additives for high pressures between the gears but must at the same time not contaminate the wet clutch pressure plates with a oil that contains some of the super lubricants found in the oils made for automotive use.

mattsz · **Reply #53 on:** August 17, 2012, 10:38:21 am

So, do I *insist* on full synthetic? I suppose I could, but I'm hesitant to go against the practice of my dealer, for the same reasons I'm scratching my head looking for guidance here.

If the manual says to use it, then that's a strong argument...

If I end up with non-synthetic, couldn't I just change it myself? Is there any need to flush the old before switching to synthetic? I understand that it's very difficult to completely drain all the oil during a change...

Tri750 · **Reply #54 on:** August 17, 2012, 05:59:52 pm

The RE service manual says M/C specific Semi-syn. I think I can live with that for the short time it will be in there if the bike is already prepped with it. "Insisting" on anything is like insisting on a special burger at McD's or insisting on some lovin' from the wife. It will result in disappointment or spit on your fries!
If he hasnt prepped it, request full syn. If there's a slight up charge, eh, so be it.
Please, I'm not the oil police nor am I an oil nazi. Get the bike, ride it and do the few things you read about here to insure your happiness and reliability then ride it some more. Support your local dealer and be a good ambassador to motorcycles and the RE.

Arizoni · **Reply #55 on:** August 17, 2012, 11:31:14 pm

Here, Here! (Large mug of Ale raised high).

As for changing ones own oil (and filter) I'm a great believer in doing just that.
Full Syn. oil will mix nicely with the small amount of non-syn or semi-syn oil left in the hidden recesses of the engine.
The important thing to remember is to ride the bike and warm up the oil before draining it.

mattsz · **Reply #56 on:** August 18, 2012, 01:10:45 am

Quote from: Tri750 on August 17, 2012, 05:59:52 pm

The RE service manual says M/C specific Semi-syn. I think I can live with that for the short time it will be in there if the bike is already prepped with it. "Insisting" on anything is like insisting on a special burger at McD's or insisting on some lovin' from the wife. It will result in disappointment or spit on your fries!
If he hasnt prepped it, request full syn. If there's a slight up charge, eh, so be it.
Please, I'm not the oil police nor am I an oil nazi. Get the bike, ride it and do the few things you read about here to insure your happiness and reliability then ride it some more. Support your local dealer and be a good ambassador to motorcycles and the RE.

Tri-

I was going to make a joke about how I see you've met my wife, but if I do then I'll know the real meaning of disappointment! Seriously, she's been a gem and a saint throughout this whole process!

I appreciate all you're saying, and I value your input - all you guys!

My guy maintains his position as resolutely as you do. He is not my "local" dealer - I don't really have one within a few hours. But I'll support him by buying the bike from him... and accepting his generous offer of bringing it 2 1/2 hours in my direction! And by going with his recommendation, at least for his prep. I'll get the bike home with very few miles and can make any necessary change then.

I have a gazillion more questions, but I'll hold them until I have a chance to properly peruse and search the archives.

Ok, just one: do these bikes require metric tools?

gremlin · **Reply #57 on:** August 18, 2012, 02:06:04 am

Quote from: mattsz on August 18, 2012, 01:10:45 am

........................do these bikes require metric tools?

Yes, and a metric hammer too......

Jack Leis · **Reply #58 on:** August 18, 2012, 04:22:55 am

A metric Crescent wrench is very valuable too.

Kevin Mahoney · **Reply #59 on:** August 18, 2012, 06:08:54 am

We are back to the Ford versus Chevy, Pennzoil leaves muck in the engine, you must not swim within 3 hours of eating sorts of wives tales. Someone said it best here, what semi synthetic does, full synthetic does better. The oil engineers that designed the engine took their cues from Motul. Motul sells oil. They tell me that the engine will run to spec using semi synthetic oil. Synthetic is also fine even from birth. Dino oil is also OK but they will not say that publicly nor will they back your warranty. I personally would use it but why do that when better oil is available? The UCE engine runs pretty cool so way high end oil is probably overkill.
You can use synthetic from brand new. The advice not to comes from the "old days". We even used to use non-detergent oil in a fresh engine for the first 500 miles or so, usually 10 weight. When I was a small boy in MN they used to put Kerosene in oil to thin it out for winter. You would sometimes run into rings that would not seat and you might even have to throw a little abrasive into the carburetor. Flathead Fords could do that because the blocks were so hard. But........ those days are long gone. Between modern materials, modern machining standards and especially modern cylinder honing techniques none of this is necessary anymore. Many commercial engine rebuilding articles will even tell you not to hone the cylinder when you re-ring an engine under the theory that the honing material that you necessarily introduce into the engine is worse than the minute chance of rings not seating. In all of the years I have done this I have not seen one case of rings not seating on any Enfield engine regardless of the oil etc. I have seen seizing on iron barrels from rough treatment but no rings not breaking in. When you question people about this you usually find that it is always someone uncle, cousin, friend of the uncle, cousin etc that swears this happens to them. These are the same relatives that swear they were throw over the handlebars with a broken leg by a kick start bike. It is never the person telling the story.

However this is a subject that many people have strong feelings about.

Here are the important points
1. Go with whatever oil the dealer puts in it from new. Semi-synthetic is plenty good, use synthetic if you want. It is probably a waste of money because you are going to change it pretty soon anyway. Either way you are NOT making a mistake. Like all things Enfield do NOT over think this.
2. No matter what, change the oil and filter at 300-500 miles. The bike really needs this initial service along with all of the other things the book calls for. Make sure without fail that you remove the sump strainer and clean it. You will find material on it for certain and it needs to be removed. You will notice much less or none thereafter but always check it. Re-fill with synthetic or semi-synthetic. Fill carefully a little bit at a time and do not fill past the half full lines on the sight glass.
3. Change it again in another 1,500 miles or so. Then go to whatever the book says.
4. Change it no less than once a year. I like to do that in the fall so that old oil full of acid does not sit in the bike all winter, but that is me. Also you are ready to go.
5. Use an oil made for bikes (even Harley oil if you disguise the label). I like to use full synthetic but I don't really care about the added cost. I think the book calls for 15w40, 20w50 is OK and really even 10W40 can be used. Do not EVER use straight 50 weight regardless of what Junior with the Shovelhead at Sturgis tells you.
6. Probably more important than anything is to take it easy on the bike when it is new. Again you will find fools that tell you to run it hard because it will be a fast engine etc. but that is hog wash from another era. When the bike is new the engine generates a bit more heat so take it easy. You will feel the bike loosening up, becoming quieter and shifting easier when you get some miles on it.

barenekd · **Reply #60 on:** August 18, 2012, 04:38:59 pm

To steal Arizoni's line;
Here, Here! (Large mug of Ale raised high).

Bare

mattsz · **Reply #61 on:** August 19, 2012, 01:33:48 am

Thank you , Kevin and all!

I hope someday to be able to meet and maybe ride with you guys who have been so helpful and informative...

More soon, no doubt!

Cheers!!!

mattsz · **Reply #62 on:** August 23, 2012, 02:48:58 am

I'll be picking up my new bike soon! The dealer has very little in stock as far as Enfield-specific accessories (he says that everyone who buys one wants different things), but he has lots of general bike accessories.

I am having him bring filters and gaskets for 2 complete oil changes. Any other must-have suggestions? Chain cleaner and/or lube? Fork oil? What should I have on day one?

Ice · **Reply #63 on:** August 23, 2012, 03:54:22 am

Quote from: mattsz on August 23, 2012, 02:48:58 am

I'll be picking up my new bike soon! The dealer has very little in stock as far as Enfield-specific accessories (he says that everyone who buys one wants different things), but he has lots of general bike accessories.

I am having him bring filters and gaskets for 2 complete oil changes. Any other must-have suggestions? Chain cleaner and/or lube? Fork oil? What should I have on day one?

A shot of good scotch to relax the face muscles.

The grin from the first ride tends to last long after the bike is parked.

Ask your dealer for a copy of the Nfield gear catalog if he has one and If he has any pamphlets or posters to throw in and stack of business cards.

Pick up a 10 dollar digital tire pressure gauge at the wally world our autozone. They are self calibrating and much more accurate than the pencil type gauges.

I would also like to suggest planning on getting a factory parts book and a factory service manual. They might seem a little spends at first but they are priceless.

Congrats brother and welcome to the club. Post pics if you get a chance.

The Garbone · **Reply #64 on:** August 23, 2012, 04:14:21 am

Nice aftermarket tire spoons.
A roll of electrical tape.

Edit for brevity...

mattsz · **Reply #65 on:** August 23, 2012, 11:21:31 am

Thanks guys!

I don't mean for this to turn into a wish-list of all future potential mods and tool purchases - there's plenty of them around here already! I was looking more for advice on what to get right from the dealer, who is not a very "hands-on" RE guy, i.e. he doesn't have a lot of RE stuff. But he is bringing my bike half-way home, so that's something special!

Ice - I haven't read up yet on what "instructions" to get yet, but I will be getting them. My dealer doesn't have them. I like your other ideas, too!

Garbone, I have learned enough from this forum to have learned that I will never go anywhere, including the maiden ride, without a roll of electrical tape!

Speaking of which - locktite... The blue formula? At some point, I'll be looking for advice about which fasteners to keep an eye on as the worst culprits for coming loose - I'm getting the impression that engine and fuel tank mounts rank highly. But that's a post for another time...

barenekd · **Reply #66 on:** August 23, 2012, 07:07:23 pm

The little screws on the heat shield were the first to go on mine. In fact one left just in the time it took me to pick up my bike.
Bare

Arizoni · **Reply #67 on:** August 23, 2012, 07:51:50 pm

Yes, the blue Loc-Tite is the one to buy.

There are several other companies who make similar stuff and they all work but be sure to read the label. You don't want the 'permanent' kind that will really bond the nut and bolt together forever.

barenekd · **Reply #68 on:** August 23, 2012, 09:58:21 pm

Quote

Pick up a 10 dollar digital tire pressure gauge at the wally world our autozone. They are self calibrating and much more accurate than the pencil type gauges.

Several years ago, about 10, Motorcycle Consumers Reports did a comparison on tire gauges,and the pencil gauges were the winners!
Bare

mattsz · **Reply #69 on:** August 24, 2012, 10:34:21 pm

I'm cobbling together a front wheel chock - I don't quite trust the front end of the trailer I'm using.

The owner's manual says the B5 is fitted with a 3.25 x 19 inches front tire - is the 3.25 the actual width of the tire at its widest? If it is, I can make the chock close to the right size and wedge it on the spot if I have to...

barenekd · **Reply #70 on:** August 24, 2012, 10:44:27 pm

That's pretty much the right size. Might wanna add 1/4".
Bare

mattsz · **Reply #71 on:** August 24, 2012, 10:58:17 pm

Thanks Bare! I'll add a little extra - and bring some shims, just in case...

Tomorrow is the day!!!!!

Jack Leis · **Reply #72 on:** August 25, 2012, 03:03:31 am

Quote from: mattsz on August 24, 2012, 10:58:17 pm

Thanks Bare! I'll add a little extra - and bring some shims, just in case...

Tomorrow is the day!!!!!

Good luck sleeping tonite Mattsz ! I sense your anticipation all the way to the west coast . Early congratulations !

mattsz · **Reply #73 on:** August 26, 2012, 11:05:11 am

Final posting here I guess, for me, since I'm no longer shopping!

A follow up - the trailer chock was a perfect fit! I'm glad I added that extra 1/4 inch, the front wheel slipped right into place - any narrower and it would have been too tight.

I'll start a new post with a few other noob questions soon. Meanwhile, thanks to all who provided so much helpful info!!!!!!

barenekd · **Reply #74 on:** August 26, 2012, 06:18:15 pm

Just a parting remark on things you need. Fork oil, you won't need for awhile, chain lubes and other general lubricating stuff is available at any motorcycle or accessory. I would suggest you get some kind of cable lube and lube your throttle and clutch cables. They will last a lot longer if you do.
The only stuff you really need from the dealer are the oil filters. Did he give you the spare cables and inner tube? The bike is supposed to come with them.
Bare

mattsz · **Reply #75 on:** August 27, 2012, 03:14:16 am

Quote from: barenekd on August 26, 2012, 06:18:15 pm

Just a parting remark on things you need. Fork oil, you won't need for awhile, chain lubes and other general lubricating stuff is available at any motorcycle or accessory. I would suggest you get some kind of cable lube and lube your throttle and clutch cables. They will last a lot longer if you do.
The only stuff you really need from the dealer are the oil filters. Did he give you the spare cables and inner tube? The bike is supposed to come with them.
Bare

Hey Bare-

My dealer brought some chain lube and cable lube along - I can't remember what brand/kind; they're in box in the car. I have no special cable lube "adaptor" though, are they worthwhile? He also brought two oil filters and single o-rings, the remedial tool kit, spare tire tube, cables (throttle, clutch, speedo, I believe), a can of spray paint, and a "big shiny wrench"...