Author Topic: CALIF. EFI....Grrrrrr (Read 7105 times)

saint45 · **on:** June 26, 2012, 08:20:00 pm

Hey All, Was wondering if anyone in cali has the efi silencer. I do and am still getting some pops and grumbles. Is this normal? should I have the EFI checked? I had read it wasnt necessary but wondering if the CALIF. bikes are quite different than others. Thanks!!!!

Jack Leis · **Reply #1 on:** June 26, 2012, 08:23:44 pm

Get used to the popping , they all do it.

motorat · **Reply #2 on:** June 26, 2012, 08:32:53 pm

mine came with the high exhaust and there is not that much popping. the pic is small.

barenekd · **Reply #3 on:** June 26, 2012, 10:06:49 pm

Quote

Hey All, Was wondering if anyone in cali has the efi silencer. I do and am still getting some pops and grumbles. Is this normal? should I have the EFI checked?

I have a California bike with an EFI silencer. It pops occasionally. But runs fine.
Check and see if the exhaust pipe is leaking at any of the connectors, or the head. That's pretty much all that can a make it pop a lot.
Bare

saint45 · **Reply #4 on:** June 26, 2012, 10:18:19 pm

Thanx All!I dont mind it, just wondering if it was normal....Bare,Checked that already. Header was lose Before i put it on, but since its stayed solid. Im fine with a lil rumble.....Probably much safer around here in the bay area where everyones looking everywhere BUT the road.

JVS · **Reply #5 on:** June 26, 2012, 11:57:31 pm

Yes mate, it backfires occasionally. Pretty normal, get used to it lol Scares off people aswell

Arizoni · **Reply #6 on:** June 27, 2012, 12:49:02 am

I bought a California RE because I didn't want to wait until my bike could be shipped to Arizona from the mid-west.
Before I bought it I made a point of asking exactly what are the differences between the Ca and the 48 state models.
I was told they are exactly the same except the Ca bikes have a screw on fuel cap, the tank is vented to a charcoal canister and the canister is vented to a port on the throttle body.
The computers, valve timing, compression ratio, silencer and everything else is exactly the same.

The free flowing EFI silencer is more restrictive than the rest of the aftermarket silencers but it is still more open than the torpedo. This causes more air to be sucked thru the throttle body while the computer still is injecting the same amount of fuel as it did before. That in effect causes the fuel/air mixture to be leaner.

I have read that the computer will use the O2 sensor to find this leaner condition and it will enrich the fuel/air mix to make a more 'correct' ratio and this should reduce the backfiring.
I haven't read anyone's comment that this actually happened with their EFI bikes though.

GlennF · **Reply #7 on:** June 27, 2012, 01:34:55 am

EFI bikes with less restrictive silencers will run lean when not under power, especially when backing off for corners after riding hard or on long sustained down hill stretches. The main effects are:

- a build up of unburnt gas in the exhaust that eventually ignites in the muffler and causes the backfire sound
- in more extreme cases surging and bucking at low revs, especially on downhill stretches

Its been claimed that setting the TPS to 0.7 volts can reduce this issue a bit but I have not tried this myself.

The_Rigger · **Reply #8 on:** June 27, 2012, 01:41:33 am

Quote from: GlennF on June 27, 2012, 01:34:55 am

Its been claimed that setting the TPS to 0.7 volts can reduce this issue a bit but I have not tried this myself.

How does one accomplish that task?

Arizoni · **Reply #9 on:** June 27, 2012, 01:59:21 am

You can find out some stuff here

http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,10309.msg119216.html#msg119216

And a bit more here

http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,7617.msg84628.html#msg84628

The_Rigger · **Reply #10 on:** June 27, 2012, 02:24:05 am

Thankyah!

JVS · **Reply #11 on:** June 27, 2012, 03:38:23 am

I have done the TPS thing. My idle voltage was 0.61V. I increased it to about 0.66-0.67V.

No matter how rich you will make the system, there will always be some backfiring (Especially on the aftermarket mufflers). With the adjusted TPS setting, I still get some backfiring, not a lot though. If you roll of the throttle suddenly after accelerating a bit, it will tend to pop no matter how rich it is running. (Atleast 1 out of 3 times, and this is deliberately trying to make it backfire)

I've read on our forum before, probably through ScooterBob or Scotty the Ducaty, that the torpedo also backfires but it is more subdued. I have got used to it now, it happens rarely and when it does happen it's like

GlennF · **Reply #12 on:** June 27, 2012, 06:41:20 am

Quote from: JVS on June 27, 2012, 03:38:23 am

I have done the TPS thing. My idle voltage was 0.61V. I increased it to about 0.66-0.67V.

No matter how rich you will make the system, there will always be some backfiring (Especially on the aftermarket mufflers). With the adjusted TPS setting, I still get some backfiring, not a lot though. If you roll of the throttle suddenly after accelerating a bit, it will tend to pop no matter how rich it is running. (Atleast 1 out of 3 times, and this is deliberately trying to make it backfire)

I've read on our forum before, probably through ScooterBob or Scotty the Ducaty, that the torpedo also backfires but it is more subdued. I have got used to it now, it happens rarely and when it does happen it's like

Did you find the TPS adjustment had any negative effects like increased carbon fouling of plugs ?

The reason I ask is my B5 seems to have both over-lean backfire at the same time as over-rich carbon fouling on short trips. I replaced the air filter which reduced the carbon fouling a little bit, and have run injector cleaner - but the carbon fouling problem is still there, meaning I am therefore wary of adjusting the TPS to an even richer setting. (its possibly the O2 sensor is faulty, but I have no idea how to check that)

JVS · **Reply #13 on:** June 27, 2012, 07:31:06 am

Hey,
With all the riding I've done, I haven't inspected the spark plug till now. If you can wait till the weekend, I might take a picture of the plug and send it to you/let you know.

If your carbon fouling is not significant, I guess that may be normal/average on RE bikes. Shouldn't be worried. (Unless of course it's obvious large amount of fouling) Anyhow, I will check it and let you know.

Btw, check your PM

trimleyman · **Reply #14 on:** July 01, 2012, 06:53:51 am

saint45 , your in the bay area also. nice.I have only seen a couple of Enfields round here and never when I have been on mine. I have the Electra silencer on mine for about a month now as the cat converter was coming loose (well rattling in the inside up-front). Overall the bike runs much better although backfiring was an issue but is becoming less. Chrome quality was poor so a trip to the chrome shop is in order. Enjoy the thump.

Kevin Mahoney · **Reply #15 on:** July 03, 2012, 05:23:39 am

The California bike are exactly the same with the exceptions listed below relating to a sealed fuel system. It does not degrade performance at all. If it were me.... I would not touch the TPS setting regardless of what anyone says. It is the starting point from which all other settings in the EFI system take their cues. There can be unintended consequences from fooling with it. As with all things Enfield the answers to problems are always simple. Don't let you imagination run wild with complicated expensive fixes. First off the EFI is one of the best in the world. It is rare that there are failures of the actual EFI system itself. For example if you think you have a rich condition it is a good idea to check the sidestand switch. Put the bike on the centerstand and wiggle the sidestand while the bike is running.
I have seen a case where the sidestand switch has switch on and off in micro bursts causing a plug to foul.

gremlin · **Reply #16 on:** July 03, 2012, 04:56:25 pm

Quote from: Kevin Mahoney on July 03, 2012, 05:23:39 am

...... First off the EFI is one of the best in the world.......
I have seen a case where the sidestand switch has switch on and off in micro bursts causing a plug to foul.

come-on K you are kidding right ?

Us techie people would call that a failure of the "switch debounce" code in the programming of the EFI.

IMHO, YMMV, standard disclaimers apply.....

gremlin · **Reply #17 on:** July 03, 2012, 05:07:16 pm

OR .... it might be a fuel-control problem in the EFI code.

Seriously, was the plug fouled because the bike was stumbling along with fuel being injected whilst the ignition was cut-off ?

With a safety interlock I'd expect BOTH injector pulses and ignition pulses inhibited.

unless the timing of the switch bounce was rythmatically related to engine vibration and frame echos..... In which case I'd go back to blaming the debounce code.

Kevin Mahoney · **Reply #18 on:** July 03, 2012, 05:07:40 pm

I am completely missing your point. Maybe try again.

motorat · **Reply #19 on:** July 03, 2012, 05:12:38 pm

in regards to the side stand switch...
if my c5 is running in neutral and i deploy the side stand the engine cuts off.

gremlin · **Reply #20 on:** July 03, 2012, 06:22:27 pm

Quote from: Kevin Mahoney on July 03, 2012, 05:07:40 pm

I am completely missing your point. Maybe try again.

ALL switches bounce - some more than others.

reference list: (best read in order)
first - http://www.maxim-ic.com/app-notes/index.mvp/id/287
next - http://www.labbookpages.co.uk/electronics/debounce.html#soft
best for last - http://www.ganssle.com/debouncing.htm

The_Rigger · **Reply #21 on:** July 03, 2012, 06:25:43 pm

Quote from: Kevin Mahoney on July 03, 2012, 05:23:39 am

I have seen a case where the sidestand switch has switch on and off in micro bursts causing a plug to foul.

Another great reason to remove the switch.

gremlin · **Reply #22 on:** July 03, 2012, 06:27:35 pm

Quote from: Kevin Mahoney on July 03, 2012, 05:07:40 pm

I am completely missing your point. Maybe try again.

setting the trouble-shooting aside, my overall point was calling it the "best EFI" and then giving an example that points out a weakness in the EFI programming .... can be excused by the late hour of your post & fermented beverages.

Cheers !

Jim

GlennF · **Reply #23 on:** July 05, 2012, 12:10:43 am

Quote from: Kevin Mahoney on July 03, 2012, 05:23:39 am

The California bike are exactly the same with the exceptions listed below relating to a sealed fuel system. It does not degrade performance at all. If it were me.... I would not touch the TPS setting regardless of what anyone says. It is the starting point from which all other settings in the EFI system take their cues. There can be unintended consequences from fooling with it. As with all things Enfield the answers to problems are always simple. Don't let you imagination run wild with complicated expensive fixes. First off the EFI is one of the best in the world. It is rare that there are failures of the actual EFI system itself. For example if you think you have a rich condition it is a good idea to check the sidestand switch. Put the bike on the centerstand and wiggle the sidestand while the bike is running.
I have seen a case where the sidestand switch has switch on and off in micro bursts causing a plug to foul.

On my bike, with a cold engine, you can foul a brand new plug in less than 5 minutes riding in town traffic. The only way to avoid it is ride in a very low gear but you then have problems with the rev limiter cutting in.

I tried wriggling the sidestand as suggested but you need to move it at least half an inch before the engine cuts. I might disconnect the switch on the weekend just to see if it helps. It fouls in town with both standard and NGK plugs even after setting the gap to 0.7 mm with a brand new airfilter. Highway riding seems fine.

I am not sure if the O2 sensor would cause this issue.

gremlin · **Reply #24 on:** July 08, 2012, 05:25:45 am

Quote from: GlennF on July 05, 2012, 12:10:43 am

On my bike, with a cold engine, you can foul a brand new plug in less than 5 minutes riding in town traffic. .......................... Highway riding seems fine.
I am not sure if the O2 sensor would cause this issue.

fuel, or, oil fouling ?

does your injector sound correct ? nice crisp hydraulic clattering noise is what you should hear.

If you turn on the key, and NOT start the engine, then, how long does it take between fuel pump run ups ?

JVS · **Reply #25 on:** July 08, 2012, 05:39:06 am

Yeah ^ and it might be a good idea to check your TPS idle voltage as shown in singhg5's video. It will be interesting to know that one.

GlennF · **Reply #26 on:** July 09, 2012, 01:17:26 am

Quote from: JVS on July 08, 2012, 05:39:06 am

Yeah ^ and it might be a good idea to check your TPS idle voltage as shown in singhg5's video. It will be interesting to know that one.

TPS is unchanged at factory default and measured at 0.5 volts so quite lean.

Kevin has given me a list of things to try I am working though.

JVS · **Reply #27 on:** July 09, 2012, 01:22:32 am

I see. .5V is probably the leanest I've seen on this forum. Interesting

Hope everything is sorted out soon though. Good luck GlennF