[jedaks]

Hello all,
I recently rebuilt my engine into a 535.  I've done 1000klm and taking it easy with my running in.

Anyone else that has done the conversion, what kind of fuel consumption are you getting now compared to the 500.

I'm still using the OEM carburetor.

[walken4life]

I am curious what you did in the way of re-jetting the stock carb for this.  Also, did you do a high flow air filter and exhaust to go along with it?  Information so other folks will have something to make a comparison with.

If you have a smartphone, a great app that I use for tracking mileage on the bike is FuelLog.  It's free and can manage multiple vehicles.

[barenekd]

Ya don't need a Smartphone to get onto Fuel Log. It's online. Or the easier way is just to make one in Excel.
Bare

[walken4life]

Yes.  What could be easier than creating an excel spreadsheet, setting up the formula to have it automatically tabulate mileage in the one column, then manually entering the information after having recorded it elsewhere at the time of fill-up?  Oh, and having to do this at your computer, then coming back to your computer any time you need to reference or edit the spreadsheet. 

Wait! I know!  Entering it directly into a phone app when you fill the tank.  An app specifically made for this purpose running on the phone you always have with you anyway.    Brilliant!

Just bustin' your chops, Bare.  Seriously though, some phone apps are pretty awesome.

[Arizoni]

My portable phone doesn't have an app.
It also doesn't work if I get further than about 100 yards from its base station that's sitting on an end table in the living room. 

My other phone is hooked up with wires to the outlet on the wall.
Somehow I don't think either one of them will work when I'm a half mile down the road at the local filling station. 

[Lwt Big Cheese]

Ya don't need a Smartphone to get onto Fuel Log. It's online. Or the easier way is just to make one in Excel.
Bare

I can recommend Fuel Log, for the same. Free too.

[jedaks]

I'm not tech savvy and don't have a mobile phone anyway.

When the bike was a 500, I was getting 23 kilometers to litre, with a S&B cone filter and free flow exhaust. Now I'm getting 17.

[tooseevee]

        I don't know how I'm gonna get through the rest of my life. I don't have a cellphone, my phone runs on wires like Arizoni's & will work down in my driveway on a good day if I hold my face right. I only want to talk on it when *I* want to talk on it, I never answer it until I know who it is & even THEN I might not answer it & I'm not the least bit interested in having a bunch of other people out there knowing what I'm doing every minute of my life & being able to butt in on whatever I'm doing whenever they feel like it.

            What's WRONG with me?

             I'm watching what early-age computer literacy & "social media" has done & is doing to my 10 year old twin granddaughters & I don't like it. I also learned long before they were born that it's none of my F-ing business.

               I also realize that it's a blessing & a good in other ways. Sorry to go off-topic.

                I do gas mileage (if I bother at all) the old-fashioned way; I just take one number & divide it by another.     

[Chuck D]

        I don't know how I'm gonna get through the rest of my life. I don't have a cellphone, my phone runs on wires like Arizoni's & will work down in my driveway on a good day if I hold my face right. I only want to talk on it when *I* want to talk on it, I never answer it until I know who it is & even THEN I might not answer it & I'm not the least bit interested in having a bunch of other people out there knowing what I'm doing every minute of my life & being able to butt in on whatever I'm doing whenever they feel like it.

            What's WRONG with me?

             I'm watching what early-age computer literacy & "social media" has done & is doing to my 10 year old twin granddaughters & I don't like it. I also learned long before they were born that it's none of my F-ing business.

               I also realize that it's a blessing & a good in other ways. Sorry to go off-topic.

                I do gas mileage (if I bother at all) the old-fashioned way; I just take one number & divide it by another.   

Amen. To all of it.
Chuck.

[Philbomoog]

Don't really want to hijack the post any further but I just write my odometer mileage on my petrol receipt to keep track on how much fuel I'm putting in and how far I can go before I have to do it again.

[walken4life]

Don't really want to hijack the post any further but I just write my odometer mileage on my petrol receipt to keep track on how much fuel I'm putting in and how far I can go before I have to do it again.

Don't worry, this thread has already been hijacked.  For some reason, instead of offering actual advice to jedak related to his question, it turned into an anti-technology rant.

[Blltrdr]

When the bike was a 500, I was getting 23 kilometers to litre, with a S&B cone filter and free flow exhaust. Now I'm getting 17.

You should be getting 25-29 kpl at least. Your engine has just been rebuilt so your mileage will improve once your rings fully seat. But with the mileage you are stating I would think you have other problems. I can't suggest any nifty cell phone apps but will attach a carb manual for you. You might want to go through your carb following this manual. If you have changed your cam/ignition timing maybe that is a possibility. Smell your oil for strong petrol odor. I think you posted a week or so ago about your glowing exhaust. You seem to have a lot of problems getting your settings right. I would probably start from scratch with a known set of parameters. I would log those then go from there. Record changes to timing, jetting, etc. until you iron it out. Post your starting parameters with a detailed description on how you perceive your performance. Forum members will be able to help you with your tuning if you start off this way. Report back your changes and update your performance data. I found keeping a detailed log very helpful when tuning my carb.

[Lwt Big Cheese]

Thanks for the attachements.

I read them on the train on my smart phone.

 

[jedaks]

  You seem to have a lot of problems getting your settings right.

Thanks mate, yes I can't seem to dial some things in.

I think I got my timing pretty well right. I still get a blue header pipe way down to the second bend when the engine is hot, which can indicate retarded, but when the bike cools the bluing fades pretty much all way. But the degree wheel and strobe timing light say its right.

I believe my carburetor is the key. I have heaps of advice on what jets to use but I still can't seem to get anywhere. It is a black art, tuning a carb.

I have a 27.5 pilot jet in there. I started with it 1.5 turns out from bottom. That gave me a good idle but the engine would die when the throttle was blipped. The engine would also die when 1st gear was engaged unless I rolled the throttle. Lots of popping on deceleration, especially down hill. That tells me its lean. So I screwed in the air bleed screw little by little until all those symptoms went away but my spark plug was black and furry. So I screwed it out again little by little until the symptoms were still gone but the plug was chocolate brown. So I think my idling and low range settings are good.

I have a P2 needle jet and the jet needle clip is on the bottom groove. I consider the bikes performance in the mid ranges to be good or at least good-enough. The bike feels powerful and accelerates up to 100kph (60mph) with no hesitations. I think the mid-range jetting/settings are good or at least good-enough.

The high range is my problem. When I get up to 100-105kph, I am at wide open throttle. That's not right. Most people tell me that with my setup (535 with 8.5:1 piston at 150psi compression) I should be only be around 1/2 to 3/4 throttle at 100kph.

I did some plug chops the other day. I got up to wide open throttle on the highway for 1 minute and killed the motor, pulled the clutch, drifted to a stop. My plug was a pinkish-brown. That was with a 127.5 main jet.

So I put in a 130 main jet and repeated the same test. No change to the plug color and I was wide open throttle for 1 minute. The engine had a tiny bit if stutter/hesitation at one point but it was gone very quickly.

So I have ordered a couple of larger main jets to see what happens. A bloke in the Enfield club here had a bike very similar to mine (535, 19 tooth sprocket, same piston, steel conrond, alpha roller bearing, japanese bearings in the cases, clutch springs 1/2 normal, 1/2 heavy duty, and the Mikcarb VM28). He told me he had to go to a 140 main jet before he got proper top end.

I forgot to mention I have a S&B cone filter on the back of the carb. My exhaust is straight through (no cat converter) but it does have the PAV system. I ordered a blanking nut from Hitchcocks to get rid of that. My muffler is the shorter Indian one. I live at sea level.

I'm not trying to make a crotch rocket out of this. I'm not into 'high performance'. But I rebuilt the engine into a 535 with the above mentioned mods to enable me to ride the highway and keep up with traffic when I can't ride back roads. I'm not a racer or a rev-head. I'm a sedate thumper that wants to have some "oomph" on tap when needed.

And to stay a little on topic, I'm using too much fuel at the moment.

Maybe I am targeting the wrong area and should be looking at the air flow into the carb rather than the jets?

The Secretary of the Treasury has forbidden the purchase of a bigger carburetor at the moment so I need to tune in the Mikcarb.

Thank for hearing my snivels. 

[Arizoni]

One of the first things I would have tried would be to remove the air filter.

I'm a great believer in air filters but I also know they can be more than a little restrictive.
They also can sometimes cause a great deal of turbulence in the airflow which basically chokes the inlet down to less than the actual metal surface size.

[jedaks]

Thanks Arizoni
I will try a few short runs sans filter and see what happens.

By the way, I appreciate your responses. I don't come here much but you seem to frequently respond to my questions. I appreciate that and thanks again.

PS. I was in Tucson for awhile. Yes, it is a dry heat. A 120 degree dry heat

[Blltrdr]

Thanks mate, yes I can't seem to dial some things in.

I think I got my timing pretty well right. I still get a blue header pipe way down to the second bend when the engine is hot, which can indicate retarded, but when the bike cools the bluing fades pretty much all way. But the degree wheel and strobe timing light say its right.

I believe my carburetor is the key. I have heaps of advice on what jets to use but I still can't seem to get anywhere. It is a black art, tuning a carb.

I have a 27.5 pilot jet in there. I started with it 1.5 turns out from bottom. That gave me a good idle but the engine would die when the throttle was blipped. The engine would also die when 1st gear was engaged unless I rolled the throttle. Lots of popping on deceleration, especially down hill. That tells me its lean. So I screwed in the air bleed screw little by little until all those symptoms went away but my spark plug was black and furry. So I screwed it out again little by little until the symptoms were still gone but the plug was chocolate brown. So I think my idling and low range settings are good.

I have a P2 needle jet and the jet needle clip is on the bottom groove. I consider the bikes performance in the mid ranges to be good or at least good-enough. The bike feels powerful and accelerates up to 100kph (60mph) with no hesitations. I think the mid-range jetting/settings are good or at least good-enough.

The high range is my problem. When I get up to 100-105kph, I am at wide open throttle. That's not right. Most people tell me that with my setup (535 with 8.5:1 piston at 150psi compression) I should be only be around 1/2 to 3/4 throttle at 100kph.

I did some plug chops the other day. I got up to wide open throttle on the highway for 1 minute and killed the motor, pulled the clutch, drifted to a stop. My plug was a pinkish-brown. That was with a 127.5 main jet.

So I put in a 130 main jet and repeated the same test. No change to the plug color and I was wide open throttle for 1 minute. The engine had a tiny bit if stutter/hesitation at one point but it was gone very quickly.

So I have ordered a couple of larger main jets to see what happens. A bloke in the Enfield club here had a bike very similar to mine (535, 19 tooth sprocket, same piston, steel conrond, alpha roller bearing, japanese bearings in the cases, clutch springs 1/2 normal, 1/2 heavy duty, and the Mikcarb VM28). He told me he had to go to a 140 main jet before he got proper top end.

I forgot to mention I have a S&B cone filter on the back of the carb. My exhaust is straight through (no cat converter) but it does have the PAV system. I ordered a blanking nut from Hitchcocks to get rid of that. My muffler is the shorter Indian one. I live at sea level.

I'm not trying to make a crotch rocket out of this. I'm not into 'high performance'. But I rebuilt the engine into a 535 with the above mentioned mods to enable me to ride the highway and keep up with traffic when I can't ride back roads. I'm not a racer or a rev-head. I'm a sedate thumper that wants to have some "oomph" on tap when needed.

And to stay a little on topic, I'm using too much fuel at the moment.

Maybe I am targeting the wrong area and should be looking at the air flow into the carb rather than the jets?

The Secretary of the Treasury has forbidden the purchase of a bigger carburetor at the moment so I need to tune in the Mikcarb.

Thank for hearing my snivels.

Well I know you have mentioned you changed the inlet cam timing. That could be your problem. Are you sure you did it correctly? I'm sure you are following Ace's advice on how to set that up correctly. You would think you would have had these symptoms worked out by know. Is there a chance that you advanced your inlet cam instead of retarding it? What if you tried going one notch the opposite direction and see what your performance is like.

What kind of manuals are you referencing for your carb adjustments. I will post a couple manuals. One is a scooter manual for tuning Mikuni & Keihin PWK carbs, but has some good all around tuning info. http://scootrs.com/tech.cfm?tip=tunecarb

[jedaks]

Thanks Blltrdr

I put the cam timing back to stock. I did try Ace's advice and did several hundred kilometers with the rephased cam. However things have actually improved on the bike by returning to factory stock cam timing. I think rephasing the inlet cam is a trick that can be useful but new Clubman or Fireball cams would be much better.

Thank you for the link to the manual. I have read that and only understand about half of it. Too many squiggly lines on graphs. But I will certainly refer to it.

[Blltrdr]

Thanks Blltrdr

I put the cam timing back to stock. I did try Ace's advice and did several hundred kilometers with the rephased cam. However things have actually improved on the bike by returning to factory stock cam timing. I think rephasing the inlet cam is a trick that can be useful but new Clubman or Fireball cams would be much better.

Thank you for the link to the manual. I have read that and only understand about half of it. Too many squiggly lines on graphs. But I will certainly refer to it.

Check out that scooter link I provided also. There are some good tips there.

[jedaks]

I've been keeping some records of my fuel use and distance traveled to try to narrow down what fuel economy I'm getting.

13 June I filled up the tank with 18ltr (4.75 gallons I think) of premium fuel. I only ever buy premium. Odometer was 13452 klm. (About 900klm on the new rebuilt motor)

21 June, 14 litres, odometer 13695.
06 July 13 litres, odometer 13896
14 July 13 litres, odometer 14127

I am getting about 5.5 litres per 100 kilometers. Thats 17.85 kilometers per 1 litre of petrol.

Imperial measurement. 100 kilometers = 62 miles. 5.5 litres is 1.45 gallons.

Most of my riding is short trips and the engine only has about 1000 miles on it.
So I suppose theoretically if I sustained a certain speed for a longer period of time to allow engine temperatures to stabilise I might do better. Also perhaps fuel economy will improve as the engine further beds in.

Is that reasonable? Do I have anything to complain about?

Regards,
Joe

[LarsBloodbeard]

Sorry to bump an old post, but I wanted to say I found this as entertaining as I did helpful.  I was looking up info on 535 upgrades and found people squabbling over smartphones, computers, pen & paper, etc... You're all right, you know.  Each has it's pros and cons.  Whatever works best for you is the best solution.  And putting someone down for using a smartphone is as silly as putting someone down for using paper.

-Lars

[barenekd]

Off the top of my head, that works out to about >50mpg. That sounds pretty lousy to me, normally getting about 70 mpg. But I haven't read about all you've done to the bike, but it obviously won't get what the 500s will.
However, the low and mid range of the carb is where you should be concentrating. The idle circuit, needle, float level has more effect on your mileage than the main jet unless you're really flogging it. But more importantly, you need to take care of any other  problems that you may have, cams, ignition, etc, before you can get the carb right.
Bare