[Bullet Whisperer]

Due to a few vague enquiries about any more of these being available, I wish to guage interest for a possible repeat batch of these being made. They work well in the AVL engines and also the 'Iron' engines.
 Anyone interested, please P.M. me and we can see where it goes.
 B.W.

[EnfieldJake]

P.M. Sent. If not received please let me know. Thanks!

[bedlam]

I was lucky enough to pick up the last of the previous batch of these cams and I can wholeheartedly recommend them. They completely transform the way the power is delivered, allowing the motor to rev freely to over 7000rpm. I've got them fitted to a standard engine with a free-flowing exhaust and a flat-slide Mikuni TM32 carb and saw 23bhp @ 5000 rpm at the back wheel on a lean main jet. Significantly, the power curve was still rising when we  stopped (we were really only checking the jetting so I'd asked the dyno operator not to go over 5000. I forgot to tell him to take it all the way for the power run so he stopped early!), so with the right jetting and a full run, there's more to come. That's with the standard piston and compression ratio, and a fairly conservatively-sized carb.

The engine is easy to start, idles very well - better than on the standard cams - and really well-mannered. Although the cam allows the motor to rev, it doesn't compromise the performance lower down so I don't have to thrash it all the time. I can still cruise around lazily, but now the performance I need for overtaking is there. Other than losing the valve-lifter (which never really worked anyway), there are no disadvantages to fitting this cam set. For anyone wanting to exploit the full performance of their AVL engine, these cams are a must.

By the way, I don't work for BW! I just like stuff that works, and these cams do.

[Bullet Whisperer]

Thanks for the positive comments, Bedlam!
 It was pure chance that after trying just about every type and combination of cams to hand whilst tuning an AVL that, having made little progress, I thought I might as well stick an old set that were lying around in to try. I had to just about pinch myself on the first ride, as it was a total transformation and, as you say, the cams alone will give a significant boost to the all round performance of these machines and would probably give the 'Classic' engines a shot in the arm, too.
 These cams are not fierce or lumpy, they just work very well.
 B.W.

[AVL Power!]

BW is awesome! I was talking to Basanti about the "S" Cams and I know how much happy he is with those cams! by the way.. in order to run these cams.. do I need to rebuild the lower end of the engine? I hear that lower end fails if they go above 6k rpm?

[matthewjohnson480@gmail.c]

scince you have to remove the valve lifter?..can the AVL be  fitted withn a decompressor like the iron barrel?    sent P.M.,  I would like to have them...Matt in Phoenix

[boggy]

Interesting to read the feedback, Bedlam.  How complicated is the install on these cams?

[Bullet Whisperer]

Hi Matt,
 It looked workable to squeeze a decompressor in, but it would be tight for space and there is no passageway into the exhaust port for it to dump the compression into, so it would be tricky and possibly expensive to do.
 The cam people tell me it will be about 6 weeks from my placing an order until I recieve any cams.
 B.W.

[Bullet Whisperer]

Interesting to read the feedback, Bedlam.  How complicated is the install on these cams?

Hi Boggy,
 They are a straight swap for the old ones, but you have to loose the decompressor feature on the exhaust follower, to allow it to drop that bit further onto the smaller base circle of these cams. It is also neccessary to screw out the pushrod adjusters to take up this slack, which they usually do with no problems, but longer adjusters are available from Hitchcocks [and maybe from our hosts?], should they be required.
 B.W.

[bedlam]

If the circlip groove on the cam follower doesn't drop below the top of the valve guide with the new cams in (I forgot to check so I'll have a look tomorrow), there's a chance that you could turn up a new valve-lifter collar with the internal stop and the upper flange moved up to acommodate the new base-circle. That would be pretty easy to retro-fit and the valve lifter would then work as normal. If the groove does drop below the guide, then the guide would need a couple of millimetres machining off the top and that's a bigger job. Or you could cut a new circlip groove a bit higher up the follower, which sounds easy but won't be.

I wondered if the type of self-resetting decompressors used on Harleys might be easier to fit than a genuine RE one. Still a massive amount of machining to get through all those fins though.

To be honest, I don't really miss the valve lifter, as I never used it anyway - the stupid bendy plastic lever made sure of that. I did buy a very cool combined clutch / decompressor lever mount which is now a combined clutch / does nothing lever mount. Still looks cool though.

[Mitch]

I would buy a set if available.  I have been to Bonneville last year and am going again.  I have a 2006 electra cafed out...  In the quest for speed.

[AVL Power!]

Good Luck Mitch! 'S' is your lucky charm for speed!

[GreenRE]

Hi Matt,
 It looked workable to squeeze a decompressor in, but it would be tight for space and there is no passageway into the exhaust port for it to dump the compression into, so it would be tricky and possibly expensive to do.
 The cam people tell me it will be about 6 weeks from my placing an order until I recieve any cams.
 B.W.

As long as you dont use it to turn the engine off you will be fine.

[Adrian]

Just another testimonial, really: when I borrowed a (well used) set of Redditch original "S" cams from Bullet Whisperer they really did help my Electra-X find the missing revs which head porting, carb swaps and liberated exhaust systems didn't fully deliver, so I gladly ordered a set for the now nearly finished (no, really!) project.

BW, when you get enough interest I think you will have to quote prices in $ US, £ Sterling and Rupees given the membership of this forum... Nobody mention the Euro...

Regards,

Adrian

[matthewjohnson480@gmail.c]

Hi Paul, previously said I wanted the cams; funds short, won't be able to send $ until around Christmas... just so you can plan...thanks, Matt in Phoenix

[riverrock]

I realize this is like 2 1/2 years later but, was there ever another batch of "s" cams made for the AVL ? I'm not sure what PM to Bullet Whisperer is.

[High On Octane]

PM is personal message.  If you click on Bullet Whisperer's profile, there is an option to send a personal message.  There were talks of another run, but I'm not sure where he is at on that.  I'm sure he will chime in here soon.

[DanB]

Actually, there was a batch made up earlier this year.  BW's pm works just fine, and he frequents this community.

See: http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,17625.0.html

[Bullet Whisperer]

The last batch of 'S' cams all had names on them and sold out. Three batches of 6 sets all went in total and I sometimes wonder if that just about satisfied the bulk of the demand. I have none available at present, but more could be made if there were still enough interest in them.
 B.W.

[armando_chavez]

I was able to get post 1956 S cams from hitchcocks and they work just fine

[wdco42]

Hello BS,
I have a 1951 500 J2, would those cams give her a bit more oummph ??
Thank you
Claude

[ace.cafe]

Hello BS,
I have a 1951 500 J2, would those cams give her a bit more oummph ??
Thank you
Claude

I don't know much about the J2, but if it uses the same cam gears as the later Bullets, it would add higher revving capability. If you feel that the J2 might not be strong enough to take higher revving, then you might need to build up the engine for strength first.

[wdco42]

Hello Tom,
I try to apply to the J2 some of the mods I've made for my CO to get it more solid : "real" crankshaft bearings, big oil pump (the funny thing is that the J2 has originally the big diameter inlet oil pump piston...), improved oiling system and lightened distribution (alu pushrods and valve collars), and added a brand new crankshaft from Alpha Bearings.
I plan to have some strenghtening made in the crankcases, especially the drive side one, as it looks a bit week.
The J2 cams are virtually the same as the CO, with the same duration (iv 30/60, ev 75/35), but the 500 has 150cc more and a double exhaust port to deal with...
I don't know about the S cams, that's why I asked to "the men who know"..
The idea is to have a more lively bike than the original sidecar puller she was.
So, all your advices are very important for me.
Thank you for your "lights"
Claude

[ace.cafe]

Claude,
With all that done to your engine, you can definitely boost the power.
The cams on the 350 and 500 are the same. If you have 38 teeth on the cam gears, with a 5/8" shaft, then all Bullet cams should work in it. You'll need valve and port work to get the most from them. A larger carb to suit the port work would be needed too. We should talk about this. 

[Adrian II]

With an uprated and toughened engine, could you consider a set of "R" cams? 

A.

[ace.cafe]

With an uprated and toughened engine, could you consider a set of "R" cams? 

A.

He could even do Magnum Cams, or Hitchcock cams.  But basically all Bullet intake ports flatten off flow at .350" lift, so porting would be a good idea if more lift is involved. Also valve springs and valves.

[Bullet Whisperer]

The WIDTH of the cams will be the only limiting factor. I know on the pre '56 350 G2 machines and Model G types, the cams are narrower than on later ones, it might be worth checking if this applies to your machine My own 1955 JS 500 is compatible with all the later style, wider cams. Hope this helps!
 B.W.
 P.S., As it stands there is not enough interest out there to commission another batch of 'S' cams at present.

[SteveThackery]

Due to a few vague enquiries about any more of these being available, I wish to guage interest for a possible repeat batch of these being made. They work well in the AVL engines and also the 'Iron' engines.

Hey, BW, would these fit the UCE?  I know the UCE is based on the AVL engine, so thought it worth asking.

[ace.cafe]

Hey, BW, would these fit the UCE?  I know the UCE is based on the AVL engine, so thought it worth asking.

Can't do.
The UCE uses roller tappets. The Iron Barrel and AVL use flat tappets.
Flat tappet cams are not compatible with roller tappets, and vice versa.
Also, the UCE cam gears have different number of teeth than previous cams, probably as a preventive measure to avoid accidental swapping.

[SteveThackery]

Ah, OK, thanks Ace.

[wdco42]

First, let me wish you a very happy Christmas ! And please forgive me not to have answered earlier (cold weather+ xmas gifts = homework)
Tom, I have looked at my cams, they effectively go on 5/8" shaft, but have 40 teeths.. the width of the lobs is 14.2mm. So it should mean the S cams won't fit.
I have in stock (certainly an old Bullet one, as it has too 40 teeths, and the lob the same width as the J2) an inlet cam that has 20° more opening than the J2 one, but no "S" logo.
Some datas :
The inlet port has a 1"1/8 mm diameter
The inlet valve head is 1.625" (effective diameter : 38.2mm), the exhaust one is 1.5" (effective diameter 35mm)
The exhaust port (at the pipe) is 35mm x 2
I have looked at the head, and the biggest diameter for both valves would be 1mm more.
The crankshaft is a brand new one, with 25mm shafts. The bearings I have got are, for the drive side : 1 x NJ205 (25x52x15)crank side, 1 x 6205 (25x52x15), separated by a circlip.
For the timing side a NJ2205 (25x52x18), and the bronze bush
All are FAG, C3 and have a bronze cage.
The compression ratio isn't determined for the moment, but the top engine is all cast iron.
I have some interrogations about the way to go :
- the possible compression ratio
- the use of the Bullet inlet cam (I don't have the exhaust one, and don't know if the Bullet has the same caracteristics).
- Should I open a bit the inlet port, and fit bigger valves, or is it ok like that (Bullet cam or original one)
- As the bearings are 10mm smaller than Bullet ones, will it be a weak point ?
To resume : will my J2 allways be a good old purring cat, or a roaring tiger
Anyway, BW, I'm in for a set of S cams that will go in my Machismo.

[ace.cafe]

First, let me wish you a very happy Christmas ! And please forgive me not to have answered earlier (cold weather+ xmas gifts = homework)
Tom, I have looked at my cams, they effectively go on 5/8" shaft, but have 40 teeths.. the width of the lobs is 14.2mm. So it should mean the S cams won't fit.
I have in stock (certainly an old Bullet one, as it has too 40 teeths, and the lob the same width as the J2) an inlet cam that has 20° more opening than the J2 one, but no "S" logo.
Some datas :
The inlet port has a 1"1/8 mm diameter
The inlet valve head is 1.625" (effective diameter : 38.2mm), the exhaust one is 1.5" (effective diameter 35mm)
The exhaust port (at the pipe) is 35mm x 2
I have looked at the head, and the biggest diameter for both valves would be 1mm more.
The crankshaft is a brand new one, with 25mm shafts. The bearings I have got are, for the drive side : 1 x NJ205 (25x52x15)crank side, 1 x 6205 (25x52x15), separated by a circlip.
For the timing side a NJ2205 (25x52x18), and the bronze bush
All are FAG, C3 and have a bronze cage.
The compression ratio isn't determined for the moment, but the top engine is all cast iron.
I have some interrogations about the way to go :
- the possible compression ratio
- the use of the Bullet inlet cam (I don't have the exhaust one, and don't know if the Bullet has the same caracteristics).
- Should I open a bit the inlet port, and fit bigger valves, or is it ok like that (Bullet cam or original one)
- As the bearings are 10mm smaller than Bullet ones, will it be a weak point ?
To resume : will my J2 allways be a good old purring cat, or a roaring tiger
Anyway, BW, I'm in for a set of S cams that will go in my Machismo.

Claude,
I was mistaken about the teeth number. It is 40 teeth.
I think that they should fit.

Actually, this is a diversion of this AVL thread which is not related to the main topic. You should start a thread about this in the Vintage section, and that would be the proper place for it.

However, we need to back up a little bit, and start from the beginning. These "S Cams" were used in an effort to overcome an issue in the AVL engine with valve bounce. This is an issue that your engine does not have. So, you have an open road to decide what cams you might want. It appears that the Iron Barrel type cams should fit in your engine, and there are some to choose from.

Your head is restricted in flow, and has cast iron construction which is much more laborious and time consuming to port than aluminum alloy. Also, it has that troublesome dual exhaust port, which is a bad design. We can talk about that.

You should decide what you want this engine to do. The smaller main bearing shouldn't be too restrictive to your desires for output.

The compression ratio would be about the same as we use with the other Bullets. Setting the compression to go with the cams you use will be needed. You set the compression with the type of piston you get, and also with gaskets or spacers under the barrel.

With your current situation, you have flow limits which will make your maximum hp occur at somewhere around 4300 rpm. Things will need to be done to raise that up higher, so more hp can be made. Your port is small, and your valves are small, and your cam is small. You need to increase these things for the engine to be able to operate with more flow at higher rpms. I would suggest following the same basic methods as we use with the later Bullets. Port the inlet port up to about 32mm, use a 32mm carb, put the larger intake valve in it, and port the bowl to make it flow well with that valve, put a higher lift Bullet cam set into it, improve the valve springs with competition springs, get a higher compression and lightweight piston.

With the cast iron head and barrel, cooling will be limited, so I would suggest keeping it below 30 hp.

[wdco42]

Thank you Tom for your expertise.
I'll open a new topic in the good section (as I posted the message, I realised how it was at the far borders of the AVL section...).
there are some good news in your message, the more important ones are that the cams can fit (will have some interesting testings with the J2 and the Machismo, and maybe the CO if they fit..), that the engine will be able to cope with some more power (around 30 bhp will be a good goal for a 65 years old rigid bike), and that I'll have your all good advises to get that...
Lot of fun for the future