Author Topic: Hagon Shocks: Mini Review  (Read 39522 times)

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Ducati Scotty

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on: May 11, 2012, 09:40:04 am
So I never liked the stock shocks.  They feel wooden, cheap, too stiff even on the softest setting.  They feel like the crappy shocks I had on my Puch moped when I was 15.  They don't match the front at all being way stiffer and leading to a nose dive on every hard application of the front brake.  I should state that I weight about 220# and ride just one notch up from the softest preload setting.

I looked around for a bit and unless you're going to drop some serious coin and get something totally custom, Hagon seems to be about the only choice.  Girling was the brand for high performance shocks back in the day and as I understand it Hagon bought their tooling and is basically the modern incarnation.  At about $200-300 US for most offerings it seemed worth investigating.

They're basically made from components.  They have three different damping cartridges (light, medium, and heavy) with a three way preload adjustment. Each damper has a choice of a few different springs that it can be paired with.  The stiffest few springs are straight rate but the rest are progressive.  The basic $200 model is a black damping body with a chrome or black spring (slim or wide body) and no adornments.  Spend a little more and you can get a chrome body and half or full shrouds.  There's also a model with 10 way adjustable damping and some higher end units made completely of stainless and nitro charged.  These are a little beyond the $300 price point but many are rebuildable.

There are two distributors I found in the US: Hagon Shocks LLC in California and Dave Quinn Motorcycles in Connecticut.  I contacted them both by e-mail and ended up going with Dave Quinn.  They recommended a lighter spring but also told me what I had already suspected: It was the damping on the stock shocks that made them perform poorly.  They also will do two spring changes free of charge if you feel yours are too soft or too stiff.  That's serious customer service.

http://www.davequinnmotorcycles.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/HAGON_TWIN_SHOCKS.html

I was originally planning to get the adjustable damping models. For only $100 more, why not?  DQ steered me away from them.  They'd be happy to get them for me but don't stock them and don't recommend them.  They feel that at about $300 they are expensive for a non-rebuildable shock and most people are plenty happy with tne non-adjustable units for $200.  Again, when a place selling something tells you to buy the cheaper product because the expensive one isn't worth it, that's service.

Here's another thing I liked about these shocks.  If they've sold 100 sets for the exact bike you have they still won't let you just order over the web.  They want you to call or e-mail and get you the perfect setup.  They don't want to know just what bike you're putting them on, they want to know you, your weight, how you ride, 2 up or solo, aggressive or lazy, luggage or not, etc.  They take all of that and factor it in to pick the best combination for you.

And what if you have a bike like my C5 where they may not have sold any for it yet?  No problem!  I just needed to provide the center to center length, and the diameter and length of the mounting bushings.  They just pick the components to put together into your custom tailored unit.  It's not full custom but it's still pretty darn cool.

I opted for the basic model with black body and black slimline spring.  I think I was inspired by Ayers Garage recent black out treatment of his C5 and thought it was time to tone down the bling a bit.  They recommended the 18kg/100lb. spring.  They said if that was too light I could put the next heaviest spring on the same damper body.  My stock shock measured 315mm center to center so I could have taken 310 or 320.  I went with 320 figuring I don't need to lower my bike any.  Bushings were 10x22. 

Oh, and if you really want the adjustable damping units I think they will fit.  They mount small end up but I tried mounting mine upside down and there was plenty of clearance.

I had been e-mailing with Maggie about all my questions but called to place the order.  The guy who answered said she wasn't there but what could he do for me?  I said I was looking to get some shocks for an RE C5.  "Oh!  You're Scott!"  I love small businesses :)  I placed the order at about 2:00pm their time and he said he'd probably get them built and shipped that day.  And they did.

They arrived a few days later.  They come very well packed and protected in a nice box with a wrench for adjusting the preload.  Install was quick and easy, about a half hour start to finish.  Anything difficult was due to the nature of getting any shock installed inside the cage of the rear fender struts of a C5 ;)

http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=3902

So they looked pretty good.  I liked the black and I'm glad to be rid of the silly piggy back gas reservoirs.  They just don't belong on a retro bike IMO.  I got on and bounced up and down a few times.  Weird, it felt really soft.  Maybe too soft.  I put the preload on the middle of the three settings and that seemed better but still really soft.  Ok, time for a test ride

Wow!  What a difference!  You can actually feel the back end move now.  It was a little unsettling at first, the bike feels totally different and it takes some getting used to.  Also, I think the travel on these is only 3 1/2", something like an inch less than the already short travel of the stock suspension.  Still, it felt so different and so good.

I went looking for lumpy sections of road and potholes.  Over the bumps and ruts it's great.  Whereas before I would definitely feel some harsh hits through the seat (that I had attributed to the short travel) now I felt none.  You still feel the bumps but there's no killer spike to the bottom of your spine.  This really showed up when I went for a pothole that ended up being deeper and sharper than I thought.  The whole bike shuddered and I thought I might have flatted a tire or bent a rim BUT I didn't get thrown out of the seat or even feel any uncomfortable jab. 

The really big surprise was in braking.  Hard stops on the stock suspension tended to dive the front end, pitch me forward, and throw the tail into a wiggly slide.  If you read the rest of my blathering here on the board you know that I recently tried some new front springs that are way stiffer than stock (0.85kg/mm instead of 0.70) and that I was happy to be rid of the dive with those, though they didn't work out for other reasons and I'm back to stock.  I could not have imagined that changing the rear would make hard stops so much better.  There's some dive but it feels like so much less.  And the rear end doesn't get squirrely.  So where before I was fighting not to go over the bars as the rear end danced around, I now feel a mild dive and hear a nice little chirp as the rear approaches its traction limit but stays on course.  Honestly, I don't think I'm going to bother with the front end springs now.  The bike is really well balanced.  Maybe a few more mm of preload but that'll be it.

The best way to describe it overall is like riding a really well balanced dirt bike.  It's not stff like you might expect a high end road bike to be.  The front and rear ends are both moving a lot and so is the bike but you never get the feeling of the bike teetering back and forth like a rocking horse.  It's composed, comfortable, and controlled and I feel secure in the seat.  I've been riding them for a few days now and while it still feels like it's too soft I can tell it's just me getting used to it.  There's not doubt the bike is better.  I already see my riding style adapting and I'm getting more cofortable.  I think I'm unlearning the habits I built to ride around the stock suspension.  Abe here on the board had Hagons on his iron barrel and he said they transformed the bike.  I didn't believe him then but now I sure do.

Ok, so you want the cherry on top?  I really like the almost all black look but I really liked the color coordinated teal top caps on the stock shocks.  Without the shrouds the shocks just looked a bit raw and unfinished.  I had poked and prodded and found they had a 39mm opening in the top.  When I asked Dave Quinn how big the opening in their shrouds was they said 37mm, pretty close.  I got the shrouds off the stock shocks and sure enough they fit!  So now I get my black out but with a touch of elegance too.

I had the guys at the shop ride it to get their impressions.  Justin said the shock feels way more precise but a little off for him.  He thinks he might want a little less preload but said it's definitely a way better unit.  Pedro dug it.  All he said was, "Man, that bike is so tight."  Not bad words to hear from your mechanic.  I've tried the softest and hardest preload and for me the middle setting is Goldilocks, just right.

If it sounds like they're paying me to say this they're not.  I wish they were.  If I could start working the Ducati Scotty endorsement deals believe me, I would!  I'm just so jazzed that I got something that works so well right out of the box.  They nailed it, no need for a re-spring here.  I don't care much for engine mods, I usually can't see the return in throwing gobs of money at a bike to make just a little more power.  I'd rather get the bike comfortable and handling well.  I ride all the miles I can and I want the bike to stick to the road and not leave me sore when I get off.  This was certainly $200 very well spent in that regard.

Scott


WARNING:  Wear safety glasses and don't pinch any fleshy bits in the shock if you try this next trick.

For anyone interested in how to get the shrouds off the stocker it's pretty easy.  Put the shock on max preload and clamp the spring down with 6 or so heavy zip ties.  Spread them around evenly and grab all the coils you can with each tie.  Then back off the preload and cinch the zip ties down a bit at a time with pliers until you have enough clearance to see the 28mm nut under the top of the shock.  Put a wrench on it and a screwdriver through the head and just twist off the top of the shock.  The process for putting it on the Hagon is the same but there's just a split, dished washer on top to slide out, no unscrewing.


wildbill

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Reply #1 on: May 11, 2012, 01:59:08 pm
very detailed and interesting read. might be the next mod on my add list.
regards


GreenMachine

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Reply #2 on: May 11, 2012, 02:59:52 pm
what a fantastic write up and the shocks look great and a good price too...I bet it does feel different than those rear spine crushers...You say that the suspension felt different and at first unsettling with a bit of nose diving while braking hard .It will be interesting to read  your opinion reagrding your new Hagons as the riding season progresses....Enjoy...
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Ducati Scotty

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Reply #3 on: May 11, 2012, 05:26:08 pm
Jeez I write a lot when I'm sleep deprived! ;)

Green, it feels better and more '"right" every day I ride it.  I'll try and let some of the other guys take it for a scoot when I meet up with them in Seattle, get some other opinions.

Here's a pic of the stock shock take apart, minus the shroud.
http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=3903

Scott


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Reply #4 on: May 11, 2012, 05:35:03 pm
Nicely written Scotty !
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jartist

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Reply #5 on: May 11, 2012, 05:38:55 pm
Great write up, Scott! What level of damping did you get?


ace.cafe

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Reply #6 on: May 11, 2012, 05:40:41 pm
I always say, "If they were good enough for Hailwood.....".
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Ducati Scotty

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Reply #7 on: May 11, 2012, 06:08:39 pm
Great write up, Scott! What level of damping did you get?

Medium with 18kg/100lb spring.  They gave me the perfect recommendation on the first try.

Scott
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 06:46:51 pm by Ducati Scotty »


barenekd

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Reply #8 on: May 11, 2012, 06:51:17 pm
Thank you for that, Scotty. I'm going to order some as soon as I get back from vacation.
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Reply #9 on: May 11, 2012, 09:05:32 pm
Thanks Scott for this informative post on the rear shocks which can make a big difference in the ride quality and comfort.  After reading this, it seems like I am riding a horse and you are luxuriously sitting on a bump-free Cadillac ;D !  Enjoy and keep us posted as your experience grows on these new shocks.
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fzr400

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Reply #10 on: May 11, 2012, 09:30:53 pm
Medium with 18kg/100lb spring.  They gave me the perfect recommendation on the first try.

Scott


this damping you refer should be high speed damping. which is pot holes,speed bumps,etc.   low speed damping which is the contour of the road or track is much more important for traction and bike tire contact patch (staying in contact with the road.

the fellow who is the shriner who was having trouble with scraping hard parts as i tried to explain the solution is the suspension not moving or taking parts off.

that kind of rapid side to side movement is not what the suspension was design for.
the rebound damping is to slow causing the suspension to pack down after repeated inputs. plus the spring rate is probally to light. and adjusting preload only affects the first 1" of spring travel.   so each rider would need a shock spring and damping rate made for his weight and the what they are trying to do with the bike.
damping for high,medium,and low speed compression and rebound.  and thats not getting into the volume of oil and gas to keep the shock consistent.


i know if gone to far but a bikes suspension is the most important part
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Reply #11 on: May 12, 2012, 01:06:55 am
That's a fantastic review to read Scott - Not just about the product, but about the customer service too.  It's easier to spend hard earned cash when you feel like you are getting your moneys worth.

Definitely on the wish list.
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bman734

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Reply #12 on: May 13, 2012, 05:36:27 pm
This problem with the rear suspension has been one that I thought might be caused by me. I've had some scary moments fish tailing all over the place during hard braking. So much so that I started not to use the rear brake so much. Thanks for all the info on these shocks, I'm sure that this is something I will be doing to my bike in the future.
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Reply #13 on: May 13, 2012, 06:55:58 pm
BULLET 65 Rear shocks, might be a less expensive alternative for the "classic frame" or B5.Im not sure of the spring load.
Its something I've considered.
 
Thanks for the write up. $200 is getting into the zone.
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Ducati Scotty

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Reply #14 on: May 17, 2012, 09:44:05 pm
This problem with the rear suspension has been one that I thought might be caused by me. I've had some scary moments fish tailing all over the place during hard braking. So much so that I started not to use the rear brake so much. Thanks for all the info on these shocks, I'm sure that this is something I will be doing to my bike in the future.

It's not perfect, you can still lock it.  This is an old schooldrum brake with limited feel but it's certainly better than it was.

Scott