[saint45]

Glad i got my G5 awile ago cause these prices are insane!!!!!!  People, These are made in India. C'mon Enfield!

[GreenMachine]

I can only assume that the dollar has dropped against the rupee..Cost and shipping has gone up...supply and demand thrown in with the amount set aside for export is probably another issue....not sure on customs and duties..The economics of it all is probably headed higher vice going lower..I'm glad I have mine too..

[The Garbone]

Used prices will rise as a result.  Seems the average used Iron is about $1000 more than it would have been a year ago.  I am loving that 50mpg+ so it makes sense with gas at $4..  

[Ice]

Value of the dollar is down and the value of the rupee is up.

[palace15]

Basic prices in India without road tax and registration and insurance;
Bullet UCE 350 drum front brake          93.321 rupee £1166
Bullet 350 electra disc front brake         104.977 rupee £1312
Thunderbird twinspark 350                    111.919  rupee £1398



Classic 500 Disc front brake and EFI     142.228  £1777

Classic Desert storm EFI                        144.500  £1806

Classic 500 chrome EFI                          151.314  £1891

These prices calculated at todays rate of  £1(sterling UK) = 80 rupees

So someone is earning very well somewhere, probably duty! any other details please post and I will try my best to answerm as I am in India till tonight 

[Vince]

     The Indian prices also do not reflect the cost of EPA and DOT compliance. The product sold there is different than is sold here.

[Ducati Scotty]

+1. Different less expensive tires, no catalytic converter, and open loop EFI with no O2 sensor to name a few things.  These items all raise the final price.  Oh, and shipping it across a contitnent and an ocean just to get it to the States

Scott

[palace15]

Most countries have their little quirks and annoyances but surely not enough to more than double the price.

[BrashRooster]

I sure didn't buy mine based on price. lol

[Ducati Scotty]

The US models also come with extra awesomeness

[barenekd]

They are the same as they were a year ago as far as I can see. HTe price they list on this website are what I paid then.
Bare

[tooseevee]

Value of the dollar is down and the value of the rupee is up.

          Exactly. This is part of the reason. It's also part of the reason oil per barrel cost is up. It takes more dollars to buy that barrel because they are each worth less because we have overflooded the economy with printed & borrowed money that we pump down huge holes in the ground to disappear forever.

           PLUS the shipping. Plus the DOT & EPA. Plus the shiny stuff.

           And the rupee is up partly because they're doing more stuff right than we are lately.

[saint45]

I just brought this up as I have many friends saving up to buy one and the price keeps rising......up 200 here in cali. from last year. They just feel they keep getting further away and are looking at different used bikes. Thats all im sayin, thats our experience here.

[GreenMachine]

These  bikes are very cool...It comes with a price...Most of the motorcycles that I like googling over are even more expensive...My enfield and hyosung were new..the yamaha was used...I spent a total of 14 k for all three back in 06 ...Throw in another 1500 for accessories....I couldn't bring myself to let go of 23-25 k for that Harley street glide that I like....Probably one day I'll get rid of the hyosung and Yammy and get the street glide or heritage (like those too)..

[prof_stack]

The B5 is now $500 more than when it was introduced in 2011. 

Also part of the higher prices is the 2-year warranty here in the states.

[Lwt Big Cheese]

But on the up side, once you've bought one it holds it's price?

[singhg5]

Just a side note about prices of goods imported from India to US - I regularly go to Indian stores in US to buy food and household items, such as soap, toothpaste.  Typically the US prices are 2 to 3 times more than Indian price. And it is perfectly understandable why it is so. I guess same applies to Royal Enfield motorcycle.

Going reverse from US to India, a similar situation exists - a Harley Davidson motorcycle in India costs 2 times more (Yes, in US dollars) than what I would pay for same bike at my local HD dealer.

As for price increase - just look at gas price 2 to 3 years ago to today's prices at the gas pump ! The prices of everything (except for a few electronic items) in US, India are going up like the rest of the world.

Postal stamps gone up twice or thrice in last couple of years, bread at Panera gone up twice, and so on ..............remember we are all interconnected. 

[GreenMachine]

Sinhg5 - I was always aware of the Import duties on foreign items in India but I wasn't aware that a harley was twice the cost in U.S. dollars (They weren't there 20 yrs ago) ..Pretty much just the bollywood jet setters and moderate business owners are going to afford items like this anyway...I would think that the global economy is affecting India even harder than the states.in many aspects.....I still think the gas sipping enfield is a good value, fun and a smart choice for people who want something classic.

[Ducati Scotty]

Almost all import motos in India cost twice as much, not just Harley's.  That makes it so even a Ninja 250 is a status symbol

Scott

[GreenMachine]

That true..I had a 450 nighthawk and use to ride around India Gate, the parliament compound  and all around...I was always told how big a bike I had....

[Ducati Scotty]

The Bullet 500 is the biggest domestically manufactured bike in India today. 

Scott

[GreenMachine]

It was then too...I always tried to get someone to race me  but never had any takers...I had the luxury of a twin and dual exhaust vice the fellows with the 4 speed single 500 and everyone else seem to have 125 cc's ...It was a bit ridiculous at the time as I probably had a pretty fast bike in Delhi considering it was 1986....Funny I end up buying a Enfield after all.....The nighthawk is long gone...

[Arizoni]

I believe India has about a 100 percent duty tax on all things imported into that country.
This protects the Indian industry and raises a lot of revenue for the Government but it also hurts the Indian people because they have to pay an arm and a leg for high quality items from other countries.

After reading this topic I looked for the duties charged by the US on Indian made goods without success.
A duty tax calculator for figuring out what would be owed to the US government for items imported from other countries did not even list India (although it did list a few dozen other countries I've never heard of).

Apparently India uses a open ended method of ordering a Royal Enfield.
If an Indian wants to order one he/she must get on a list.
The price apparently isn't "fixed" when the order is placed and the waiting list is about 7 months long.
Because Royal Enfield India raised their prices this year it resulted in orders placed last year costing the new owners hundreds of dollars equivalent in rupees more than the price was when they placed their order. 
Talk about a crappy way to buy something. 

[Ducati Scotty]

That's harsh.  A few hundred dollars over there can be a lot of money.

Scott

[kodai]

DS--ur looking at it all wrong---just means more bribes need to be collected or given

[Ducati Scotty]

Ah!  Well so long as it's all supporting 'commerce' then I guess it's ok.

Scott

[indyogb]

I know I paid more than my B5, than I initially expected when I started my search, but dealers were all asking about that same price.  Still, I don't care - I love this thing.  So far, my best automotive purchase ever, save, perhaps, my first car (which I still have and still runs 17 years later).  The RE is just a nice, simple (relatively), beautiful motorcycle that sounds awesome.  So, I need to check the bolts every so often (haven't found any lose yet at 1300 miles), so what - that's part of the fun .

[cyrusb]

Interesting, so here is the inevitable question: What is the margin on a typical sale here in the US?  And what could it be in India?

[clubman]

The prices in the UK are even higher than the US and it is definitely affecting sales. Pre-UCE era the Watsonian, (the UK importers), website used to boast that Enfield sales were increasing year on year in a declining market. No longer. I am reliably informed they are selling half the numbers they used to. It's quite simple: an Enfield Classic costs the same as a BMW 650 single. The BMW has twice the horsepower and the same fuel consumption. It's just one example. The Honda 250 single offering very similar performance and fuel consumption to the Enfield is much cheaper. Of course the Enfield offers a certain experience that is simply unique and there are those who will pay for it and put up with the niggles that come with it. Unfortunately for Watsonian though the average UK punter looks at the market with a good deal more objectivity. Granted this is a problem for Watsonian rather than Royal Enfield at the moment as their home market is booming. Sooner or later though they will come up against the same competition that did for the Brit industry in the 70s.

[Kevin Mahoney]

To buttress Mr. Singhs point about us being interconnected.....
Harley was unable to get into the Indian market because the emission laws in India did not allow for big displacement motorcycles. After several years of negotiating India agreed to loosen their emission laws to allow Harley into the country in exchange for the US allowing Indian Mangos to be imported to the US. There is still a very stiff duty on foreign made  vehicles which makes the Harley very expensive.

India's duty structure like many countries allow for a lower duty if the product is assembled in India which provides jobs and some technology transfer. Duty is nil if you manufacture there unless you import parts for which you pay duty. It is a totally bizarre policy which brings jobs to the country, a  concept that is lost on American politicians.

Harley is starting to assemble bikes in India (gee more jobs) and without a doubt will be manufacturing there before too terribly long.

I am no expert in global trade but it seems to me that we are chumps.

[palace15]

The prices in the UK are even higher than the US and it is definitely affecting sales. Pre-UCE era the Watsonian, (the UK importers), website used to boast that Enfield sales were increasing year on year in a declining market. No longer. I am reliably informed they are selling half the numbers they used to. It's quite simple: an Enfield Classic costs the same as a BMW 650 single. The BMW has twice the horsepower and the same fuel consumption. It's just one example. The Honda 250 single offering very similar performance and fuel consumption to the Enfield is much cheaper. Of course the Enfield offers a certain experience that is simply unique and there are those who will pay for it and put up with the niggles that come with it. Unfortunately for Watsonian though the average UK punter looks at the market with a good deal more objectivity. Granted this is a problem for Watsonian rather than Royal Enfield at the moment as their home market is booming. Sooner or later though they will come up against the same competition that did for the Brit industry in the 70s.

Very good points made in this post, it will be interesting to keep an eye on sales figures of Enfields in India, as when I was there I heard the Enfield being referred to as a 'truck' and numerous times as a 'gas guzzler', the place is swarming with low capacity small bikes up to about 150cc, the young riders are not interested in RE's. time my friends will tell,

[singhg5]

Very good points made in this post, it will be interesting to keep an eye on sales figures of Enfields in India, as when I was there I heard the Enfield being referred to as a 'truck' and numerous times as a 'gas guzzler', the place is swarming with low capacity small bikes up to about 150cc, the young riders are not interested in RE's. time my friends will tell,

Very interesting observation that I can attest to as well.

Not long ago, I was out with my RE and had stopped at a lake. There a young guy from Chennai (India) who looked at my bike and asked 'Is it a German motorcycle?' I was shocked to hear that he did not know that RE was made in his home town.  

Japanese bikes sold in the millions have taken over the general population in India. RE makes only a miniscule number (1%) of the total motorcycle output in India. But it is in no danger because it is a niche market bike and will remain that way, like it has for 100 years.

[Ice]

 As long as R.E. does not pull the same crap on their customer base that H-D did in the '90's, they should do alright.

 The super secret twin cylinder that the wizards of Chennai are working on will no doubt cause some excitement when the veil of secrecy is lifted.

 I would also like to see them offer a 150cc import killer aimed dead center bulls eye at the domestic small bike market  

[GreenMachine]

I'm going back 20 yrs, so I'm  sure their been  improvement in commerce between us and the government of India....When they had the Brits finally leave, the newly formed  government set a  policy of self reliance and local productivity..One of those  objectives was feeding the masses with the resources that Mother India provided. to her people.  For the most part they were successful in that endeavor. Regarding importation of western products,  I wasn't able to get a coke in the capitol back in 87...CocoCola Corp. wasn't permitted access to the  beverage markets....I was  under the impression that the Indians were suspicious of dealing with western and/or  outside business interest...That said, they are tough business people and being a American or Europe doesn't necessarily get you a leg up with them...They are well versed in business and know what works there and what doesn't..Your not going to pull the wool over them and get the upper hand..As stated, my thinking is 20 yrs ago, so I wasn't surprise to hear that Harley had set up shop there but didn't know the particulars...

[Ice]

 I will bet dollars to doughnuts H-D®© is taking the soft approach to cozying up to India and its vast potential market for H-D®© products as well as its manufacturing potential.

Smart move on their part.

[trimleyman]

To buttress Mr. Singhs point about us being interconnected.....
Harley was unable to get into the Indian market because the emission laws in India did not allow for big displacement motorcycles. After several years of negotiating India agreed to loosen their emission laws to allow Harley into the country in exchange for the US allowing Indian Mangos to be imported to the US. There is still a very stiff duty on foreign made  vehicles which makes the Harley very expensive.

India's duty structure like many countries allow for a lower duty if the product is assembled in India which provides jobs and some technology transfer. Duty is nil if you manufacture there unless you import parts for which you pay duty. It is a totally bizarre policy which brings jobs to the country, a  concept that is lost on American politicians.

Harley is starting to assemble bikes in India (gee more jobs) and without a doubt will be manufacturing there before too terribly long.

I am no expert in global trade but it seems to me that we are chumps.

Have to agree with you Kevin. I used to work in international shipping in the UK dealing with just about every countries customs over a 15 year period.  Here in the US we are killing our ability to manufacture through shortsighted political actions. I would not be surprised to see Harley move their whole  production overseas and there have been talk in biking circles to that effect including India as the production center.

[palace15]

Japanese bikes sold in the millions have taken over the general population in India. RE makes only a miniscule number (1%) of the total motorcycle output in India. But it is in no danger because it is a niche market bike and will remain that way, like it has for 100 years.

If RE don't learn from the mistakes that Britain made then like all the rest of the 'old' British bikes, Enfields will also become extinct. Britain sat back and watched the Japanese come and take our motorcycle market even though they used no 'new' ideas that had not been used before, they arrived with fast, fairly economical and oiltight bikes, and once this happened, 'the writing was on the wall'. Enfield need to act, and act fast, another poster stated the need for a smaller capacity bike, and what is it all about when I read in 'Classic bike' magazine (March 2012) that RE will bring out a Cafe racer............in 2014?? why so long? strange thing is, I photographed one very similar machine outside the factory and the guy riding it was more than happy for me to look at it, will post pictures as soon as.
When I first started riding the old guy that taught me was a Norton Commando owner and had been for a number of years, well circa 1994 he told me that Norton were developing a Wankel rotary engined bike, when did that bike surface? around 1986-87?. Non Japanese companies need to either wake-up or roll over.
How many have ever read 'What ever happened to the British motorcycle industry'? by Bert Hopwood, read that and weep, each member of management of the British motorcycle manufacturers should have been put up against a wall and shot!!

[Maturin]

Palace15, I think you're missing the point. There are no similarities to the British motorcycle industry and RE in India today. There will be no fast transition from a working horse towards a hobby tool in India like it happened in Europe in the 50ies and 60ies. India is different.
I oppose the idea of a small capacity bike. With Chinese, Korean and Japanese competitors the margin would be zero, and RE does not have enough resources to manufacture these bikes by the thousands.
RE's long-term strategy is quite right, methinks. Getting into the premium market with medium- and big bikes is a good plan for survival. Improving quality constantly is for sure part of this plan.

[2bikebill]

"Getting into the premium market with medium and big bikes is a good plan for survival. Improving quality constantly is for sure part of this plan"

I broadly agree with this. But it's a good strategy only if they they take the quality issue a lot more seriously. We all know that a certain, uh, philosophical attitude has to be adopted when you own a Royal Enfield - it's part of the charm of course. But the quality & reliability of a brand new bike shouldn't be a matter of pure chance, and with Royal Enfield it still is!  Not a few of us here have had to adopt a degree of optimism and positive thinking bordering on delusional in order to keep that dumb RE grin on our faces. But hope can only triumph over experience for so long. The word gets out eventually, and there are plenty of better made and cheaper bikes available - and yep, believe it or not, some as much fun to ride as an obsolete old banger still being poorly lashed together in the sub-continent....

[tooseevee]

As stated, my thinking is 20 yrs ago, so I wasn't surprise to hear that Harley had set up shop there but didn't know the particulars...

            The way business has been treated as a punching bag & political football by this administration for the past 3 1/2 years & will continue to be treated during the SECOND term, can we blame ANY business for getting the hell out? The U.S. has become the WORST, most difficult place in the World to operate a business.

             Except for the engines, transmissions, frames & a few other pieces, harleys have been mostly Chinese for 30 years already anyway. Just go into any dealership anywhere & look on the back of the labels on EVERYthing in the whole place.   

[GreenMachine]

 Except for the engines, transmissions, frames & a few other pieces, harleys have been mostly Chinese for 30 years already anyway.

I didn't know that,.I was in one of the shops (I mean stores),,They sure sell alot of everything in there...Take the Enfield catalogue that we get every year and times it by 20...Their bikes are beautiful machines but I thought the Chinese and India connection was for just certain model bikes or just the merchandise stuff.
Their plant in York Pa. is about 2 .5 hours north of me...Next time I get the urge I'll take a look again at the store in Manassas or Orange...
Makes you wonder if the older made in U.S. machine might be worth more one day vice the overseas production.

[The Garbone]

I don't get that vibe from HD.  Pretty much every part I get from the local dealer has been American made.  Even the footpegs.  

Now the overpriced bling they sell to the weekend warriors, that is another story.

[2bikebill]

".....The U.S. has become the WORST, most difficult place in the World to operate a business....."

  Ahem  -  second worst .....    

[Kevin Mahoney]

These are not the kind of threads I normally like to get involved in but............

The Indian two wheeler market in India has always been centered around small cc units. I am guessing that in excess of 10,000,000 units will be sold there this year and almost all of them will be small cc. The same is true in any developing market. It is only a recent thing in India for the leisure market to even exist. If only came to be as money started to slow into India and people started to have disposable income.

Any two wheeler company in India worth it's salt in the main market in India will make over 1.000.000 units in a year. By comparison RE will make 108,000 this year. This is up from the 25,000 we used to make year after year after year. Things have gone exceedingly well for RE over the past several years. There are long waiting lists to buy a bike and bookings keep rising. They have  enough cash to really fuel R and D and build  a brand new state of the art factory which  is under construction.

The current plant has been steadily modernized since about 2012.  We still hand build a lot of the bike but that is by design and not default.

We are a very small player in India and always will be. Who wants to compete in a market with huge companies selling what amounts to a commodity where margins are razor thin? If you don't sell a million or more you don't exist. Who needs that?

By comparison on the world stage Triumph only made around 50,000 units last year. Harley, Triumph and most of the other brands are salivating over the Indian market and are trying to get in and get a foot hold. In the long run some of them will succeed but only when they either assemble or manufacture there.

I would take any bet that says that Harley will be manufacturing there within 5 years. They are already assembling. Perhaps only for the Asian markets. Why wouldn't they? Things aren't going all that well in the US, their market is aging out and it is tough to make things here for export. The Asian market is young and wants the product. Triumphs are made in Thailand (some assembly required). Bajaj has a large stake in KTM and the list goes on. It was recently reported in the industry press that Hero Motors from India was taking a look at Ducati which is for sale. (Now it looks like VW is the front runner)/

Through our prisim  here in the US RE is a very small player, but on the global stage not so much. It is difficult to make a good analysis from what we see here. Quality is another good example. I see all of the warranty claims and know what the reality of quality is. Do we run into problems - of course we do. But the key is in the numbers. I have read every warranty claim since RE came back to the US. I see a lot of blanket statements that just don't hold water when you look at the actual numbers. It is easy take one guys failures and assume that everyone is experiencing the same thing. It is also easy  to take a couple of statements and globalize them. (All bets are off with the iron barrel bikes because the technology was so old and the usage patterns here are no different than the bike was designed for).  There is a big difference between anecdotal information and empirical information.

As always another long rambling post

[palace15]

Hi Kevin
Thank you for your input, remember that each and everyone of us posting on this forum, owns, rides and loves our Enfields, but we must not ever fall into the trap of viewing them through 'rose tinted specs' and I believe honesty and openly voiced opinions are valued.

[barenekd]

On the other hand, there's no use panicking because one guy has a lot of trouble with his bike and tells us about all the problems. There are 4000 other members on this forum htat aren't complaining about anything. I have had very few things go wrong with my bike that couldn't be fixed easily by me, and certainly no more problems than I've had with any other bike, and I've owned 50 or so.
I like to hear what problems other guys have, but on the other hand, when I had a crankshaft pickup coil go out on my Triumphs, starting wit my '95 Speed Triple and continuing to my 2006 Scrambler, I could certainly let the other guys having the same problem know what their problem was. And I'm still hearing from Triumph owners battling the problem.
So it is good to know that the possibility of a problem exists and what the cure is, but to worry about something that might happen to even 100 out of 50,000 isn't worth calling the product a POS. I don't I worry about my Enfield any more than any other bike I've owned any more. It might get a touch more TLC than some of the others, but that's because it's easier to work on than the others. But believe me, I don't coddle it. Since I got the cafe racer thing done, I pretty much just wash it, occasionally. And ride it a lot.
It's a great bike and I love it. It will definitely fall into my top 5 all time favorites. And those can be adjusted to depending upon the use.
Bare

[Ice]

Well put brother !

[GreenMachine]

I can't disagree with Bares comments either..Just got back from a spirited cool spring ride and had a blast...Problems have been minor over the past 5 years,  I have to admit I'm probably guilty of looking at my bike with Rose color glasses..But hey, why not...She's proven her worth ,,, Per Kevins comments , enfield produces just over 100k machines a year...I was really surprise at that number as I expected it to be higher...It really is a niche market with a waiting list to purchase..
Harleys (I;m thinking smaller displacement cc machines ) being produced overseas and the market graying out  in the U.S.affecting manufacturing ...- I hope not but if the market isn't here it might better someplace else...

[Ducati Scotty]

All moto forums for all bikes and brands are filled with horror stories, though most people there are doing just fine.  It's the problems that get posted.  Also, all bikes have their idiosyncrasies.

I think the RE factory needs to bring quality up just a smidge and they'll be in line with most other major brands.  I think part of the frustration of new owner's with problems is that the design is new and (at least in the US) most dealers are new to it and still learning the quirks.  

CMW works hard to keep us all rolling.  If you're not satisfied with the service you're getting from your dealer call CMW direct and ask for help there.  They can probably help get you and your dealer sorted.

Scott

[barenekd]

Just like Bittercreek's Weeble Wobbles. It took him months to find out the head bearing was loose. I asked him early on if it had been checked and the dealer had presumably checked it. Apparently some dealers are still sorting out the bikes themselves. I was never aware that a loose head bearing was that hard to detect! I've found a few. Would've been the first place I looked.
Bare