Author Topic: Sprag clutch advice  (Read 12597 times)

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tanker

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on: April 10, 2008, 09:36:44 pm
So my new 2006 Electra (110 mi) just destroyed the sprag clutch.  Being rather new at this, I stalled after riding about 20 miles, so everything was warm and running fine.  When I tried to use the ES (I was at an intersection, naturally) I heard this awful grinding noise and no start.  I picked this time for my first really successful kick start while sitting on the bike, and rode the 1/2 mile home and shut it down.

I assume the sprag clutch is covered under warranty, and while I wouldn't mind replacing it myself, I don't know if I'm ready to buy the necessary RE tools to remove the primary to get at the sprag clutch.  Since my dealer is about an hour's drive (almost 2 enjoyable hours by RE), I would prefer to ride over and let him do the first one.  My question is:  If I just open up the primary outer cover, will I be able to get all of the potential metal chips out, so that by using the KS only, I can get the bike running and ride it to the dealer.  I'm assuming that much riding after a sprag clutch self destructs without removing the metal chips is probably not a good idea.  The other option would be to rent a trailer and haul it there.

Advice on this is appreciated.

Thanks,
Brian
2006 Electra-X
1994 Goldwing


Kevin Mahoney

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Reply #1 on: April 10, 2008, 09:42:35 pm
the answer is yes and no. You are right that not taking out the shrapnel is a bad idea. What you have to really watch is to make sure that there is not something damaged that will later drop into the crankcase and cause a bad result. The best advice I can give you is to take it to the dealer. Assuming that your bike is less than one year old, you are the original and the engine is more or less stock you should have no trouble getting the entire job covered under warranty. Also just so you know, once it has been replaced you will have an additional one-year warranty on the sprag. When you take it to your dealer be sure to ask him to get a "delay circuit" from us. It will take him 10 seconds to install and will help prevent this from happening in the future.
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Kevin Mahoney
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tanker

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Reply #2 on: April 11, 2008, 12:21:46 am
Thanks Kevin for the quick reply.  I am the original owner, the bike was purchased new a little over three months ago and is absolutely stock (with the exception of the mirrors).  I will check on the "delay circuit" as I thought that was already installed.  Just to be sure, what should I look for to see if it was installed.  Also, for taking it to the dealer, am I fairly safe riding it in KS mode only, after cleaning out the primary to remove "shrapnel" or is it better to bite the bullet (pun intended) and trailer it.
Brian
2006 Electra-X
1994 Goldwing


Vince

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Reply #3 on: April 11, 2008, 01:29:10 am
     You would probably be OK, BUT it isn't worth the chance. If you are the 1%er you will wind up stuck in the middle of nowhere with a serious mechanical problem. Also, if you are going to drop off the unit at the dealer you will still need a way home. Load it in your trailer so you have your car with you.


Kevin Mahoney

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Reply #4 on: April 11, 2008, 05:03:57 pm
I agree with Vince. If it were me I could count with 99 percent certainty that I would be left on the side of the road and you certainly can cause more damage.
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Kevin Mahoney
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jimsE

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Reply #5 on: April 12, 2008, 03:28:48 am
Tanker,
I would certainly trailer the bike to the dealer.  I'm holding the sprag clutch in my hand (waiting for new parts) and when they get scrambled there are many small loose parts-20+ depending on how bad the cage is destroyed.  There are holes in the driven & driving gears that will set something free to get that 1% of us that was mentioned.  All of my sprag clutch parts were contained but I did have one gear tooth in the case. 
I had to get a trailer to get my Electra home because when I tried to kick start it the starter motor would spin with the engine.
With a shop manual and a 4 slot puller I was able to get everything apart but I will get the rotor puller for the next time because it is on a tapered shaft and has no threaded holes.
Jim
2008 Electra, smiling jim


tanker

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Reply #6 on: April 13, 2008, 01:28:45 am
Thanks for all the advice, which I will take and trailer my Electra to the dealer.  Being a newbie at motorcyling, I was so disappointed with this setback as I so enjoyed putting the my first 80 miles on the bike (it had 21mile on it when I got it).  I have read all the comments from the rest of this board, talking about how much they enjoy riding their RE's, and having just started the breakin process, I can see why.  Riding an RE is a blast!  Now that spring is finally showing some promise in northeast Pennsylvania, I need to get the sprag clutch fixed fast.
Brian
2006 Electra-X
1994 Goldwing


gemini641

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Reply #7 on: April 17, 2008, 02:24:54 pm
Kevin... What is the "delay circuit" and how does it work? Do I have one on my '05 Bullet Deluxe ES? What does it look like?

Sure would like to know as I'm on my 3rd Sprag clutch and at $175. a pop I can't afford to continue replacing it.

Tom


Vince

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Reply #8 on: April 17, 2008, 09:49:37 pm
     The delay circuit is used only on the AVL motor. It doesn't apply to your bike. E-mail me at vince@vincesmc.com. I will send you the details of the modification I do to minimize this problem.


Kiwichick

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Reply #9 on: April 20, 2008, 07:35:55 am
Can you post here and describe a way to tell whether the delay circuit is fitted to my electra down here in New Zealand?

I'd like to for see myself, rather than ride to the dealer and ask!

Thanks
Biddy


HRAB

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Reply #10 on: April 22, 2008, 03:06:29 pm
I can speak for what we recieved here in the US.

The delay circuit fix is a black box  that plugs into the circuit between the main wire harness ,TCI unit and the Starter Relay. It is about an inch (25 - 30mm) square and about 12" (10-15mm thick. Look for it tied to the bike somewhere around the TCI unit and relay. The extention leads wern't very long so it would be mounted close.

There was a release from India that said the TCI would eventually be built with the delay integrated into its circuitry.
jim
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fredgold52

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Reply #11 on: April 22, 2008, 09:19:29 pm
Am I correct in assuming the relay only works for Electras, and not for the classic engines?
2006 '65' and a 200cc Stella, Indian all the way


HRAB

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Reply #12 on: April 23, 2008, 05:26:04 pm
It will only work with the TCI unit on the AVL engine Electra.
jim
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tanker

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Reply #13 on: April 27, 2008, 11:47:34 pm
Just as a follow-up, I did have my Electra trailered to the dealer, who quickly repaired it and I was able to drive down and  pick it up yesterday.  Despite the weatherman's predictions, it was a lovely day and having to take the back roads home meant a glorious 97 mile ride through the Pocono Mts of Pennsylvania.  The back roads allowed me to keep to the break-in speeds with a lot of engine speed variation going up and down hills.  It's no wonder you guys and gals brag on your Royal Enfields, it was just pure fun.
Brian
2006 Electra-X
1994 Goldwing


PhilJ

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Reply #14 on: April 29, 2008, 03:33:27 am
Does anyone know if the makers have started including the delay circuit on the new AVLs? If so what month so I can check my manufactured date.

BTW, I'm new here and on the 13th had my new Bullet Classic AVL delivered and on the 21st rode it 260 mile to the dealer for 600 mile service and then back to South Texas the next day. What a blast. What a learning curve on checking oil. If you check it cold, it will read low, assuming your oil is in correct quantity. I added to a cold low reading. On the ride that ensued my dear RE regurgitated all that I gave her. OK, she didn't want it! And spit it out......all over my air cleaner. I now know how to check oil on an RE.

Phil


calman28556

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Reply #15 on: July 03, 2008, 07:42:43 am
Sprag clutch on my Electra went out at 1318 miles.  Took a week for dealer to get the parts in only to find they have been modified and current tooling does not fit.  Been another week of waiting for the dealer to get the NEW tooling from MN.  >:(

Hopefully tomorrow he'll say he's got the tool and I can drive down to Jacksonville,NC(150 miles R/T) to get the RE.  Sure would be nice this weekend for the local 4th Parade and Festival.  Planned on giving 2 mile Sidecar rides for $5.00 with half the money going to chartiy.   

Cal
=======================================================================
Well, well.  The sprag gear had not been modified as first thought.  Seems the gear was shipped with the bearing REVERSED.  But this wasn't discovered until after the 4th weekend thus plans for above ride did not happen.  However, I've put 200+ miles on the RE yesterday with no noticed effects.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2008, 02:10:42 am by calman28556 »
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scoTTy

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Reply #16 on: July 04, 2008, 10:12:06 pm
hmmmm, with all this talk about the sprag clutch, I wonder if I can just buy one to have it in my tool box, since I have no dealer..should it ever go.?


jonapplegate

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Reply #17 on: July 13, 2008, 09:15:23 am
Sounds like it is a problem affecting 05 through 07 or 8  and now it may be fixed. Jobber prob. Something has been addressed since then. Still, I would modify like they do at Vinces. I believe they successfully addressed the issue and now it would be added insurance


Vince

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Reply #18 on: July 14, 2008, 03:36:29 pm
     My mods help, but it's not a cure. Most of my failures are on low mileage bikes. Low batteries tend to promote more of the kick back that damages the Sprag. Keep the bike in tune and ride it often. If it sits more than a week or so, use the kick starter.


PaulF

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Reply #19 on: July 14, 2008, 04:32:26 pm
Vince, a question. I have abandoned the electric start. Its only an 8.5:1 motor and easy to kick. I don't even need to use the decomp.

My question is, have there been any endemic problems over time with the kick start pawl as I've read here and there, or is it pretty reliable as-is?

Thanks again.


Vince

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Reply #20 on: July 14, 2008, 05:15:50 pm
     There is no issue with the k/s pawl when the proper kick start technique is used.


PaulF

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Reply #21 on: July 14, 2008, 05:18:45 pm
In that case, I hope my technique is correct. Find TDC, pass it and kick. I've only had it kick back once.


scoTTy

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Reply #22 on: July 15, 2008, 04:13:38 am
i went out to the garage.. did everyting I was told...  tried this tried that..  nothing....  futtt...  so I kicked it over with my thumb again..a quick start within 3 seconds


No. 5

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Reply #23 on: July 15, 2008, 04:43:39 am
Is there a way to inspect the sprag clutch? Maybe from the starter side? What would I look for? Mine would often backfire when I hit the starter, so I switched to kickstarting. I can't remember the last time it wouldn't start on the first kick.(after prep)  The electric start works when needed. I create my own delay circuit with the sidestand;-) My warranty ends in four days and I wonder....


scoTTy

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Reply #24 on: July 15, 2008, 05:40:30 am
the folks here have the rlays...  whatever you call themm...  contact them..


Jerry

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Reply #25 on: July 15, 2008, 01:39:44 pm
Scotty,  I too had difficulty kickstarting.  I could kick it when warm but never when cold.  I found that if I crack the throttle a bit she fires up first kick...very satisfying.
Jerry.


EnfieldJake

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Reply #26 on: July 16, 2008, 03:57:56 am
Scotty and Jerry, I haven't had any problems kickstarting mine. Ease it past TDC, open the throttle about 1/8 turn, then give it a nice kick. 1st kick every time... I just wish my electric start would work. You know for those "emergency" moments. I push the button and all I get is the ammeter to swing to the red. I think it froze. Maybe all it needs are a few love taps due to non-use? I used to get my old Bronco II to shift in 4WD like that.. I've already had the relay installed, and this is the second sprag. I think the original went to pieces around 3500 miles.
Jake


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Reply #27 on: July 16, 2008, 11:43:03 am
jake is it in nutural? pull in the clutch  .or else  . try giving it a kick with the compression release on.. and hit the starter at the same time if it starts turning over release the compression lever, thats pretty much how i have to start mine when cold .unless i just want to kick it to start
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Reply #28 on: July 17, 2008, 04:53:40 pm
     My mods help, but it's not a cure. Most of my failures are on low mileage bikes. Low batteries tend to promote more of the kick back that damages the Sprag. Keep the bike in tune and ride it often. If it sits more than a week or so, use the kick starter.

I think that'' what did in mine after approx 1300 miles. With the new sealed battery I installed last month the electric strat has worked great and the bike starts immediately electric or kick.
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