Author Topic: 2003 ES - Stalling / Help !  (Read 6749 times)

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rxr2012

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on: January 24, 2012, 03:39:55 pm
Hello all !

Just picked up a 2003 ES,  loosing out power climbing even a small hill.
Have not done the basics yet -oil change, clutch adjustment / plugs.
Any help on where to start will be helpful., thanks in advance.
2003 Classic 500 4SPD
2003 Yamaha FZ1


barenekd

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Reply #1 on: January 24, 2012, 04:58:51 pm
We need a lot more info than that. How has it been running before? Did you ride it previous to buying it? How long has it been sitting? The immediate things to check are the the air cleaner and put fresh gas in it, if you haven't done that yet. An oils change and clutch aren't going to make it run better. Could check the plug and see how it looks,as i worn out or fouled. Look at thepoints and see if they are oening wide enough. Should be about .012"
I would guess from the lack info that you have offered hat the points may be closed up and your timing retarded.
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rxr2012

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Reply #2 on: January 24, 2012, 05:10:02 pm
thanks,

Been sitting for a while.. 2003 with 880 miles on it., was purchased in Oct 2003 ;).
Starts on a single kick, compression is sound, revs good on the stand., not so well on the road.

Ride home from the seller was about 30 miles, not so fun, I was stalling the traffic behind me, back roads of course.

the  plan is to ,

1. Swap Oil out. - Engine and Trans
2. Clean or Replace Plugs.
3. Clean Carbs.
4. Adjust Clutch and Check the points.

Other than this, taking all inputs to make it breathe better.
Jetting options / ClutchPlates / HeadMods - any.

Btw - where can i get the oil filters quick enough than nFieldGear.




2003 Classic 500 4SPD
2003 Yamaha FZ1


ace.cafe

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Reply #3 on: January 24, 2012, 05:52:58 pm
Free flow exhaust.
Free flow air filter.
Re-jet the carb richer all around.
Set the idle when it's warm, not cold.
Make sure all the intake rubber hoses, especially the manifold hose, is not leaking or have holes. Very common problem.

Don't touch the head. The ports are already too big.

If you want performance, then ask about what to do, before you do it.
We've already been thru all the mistakes.
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rxr2012

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Reply #4 on: January 24, 2012, 08:08:09 pm
Thanks barenekd and ace. Picking up an oil filter from a local shop today.
Will keep you posted, let me get to the basics first.

Ace - i've been reading a little on the 535 mods and the kit, tempting.

- - any recommendations on Oil / Plugs / what to stay away from.
- - do i need any special tools., must have's.
- - Shell Rotella 20/40 Full Synthetic - is this a good option.







2003 Classic 500 4SPD
2003 Yamaha FZ1


ace.cafe

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Reply #5 on: January 24, 2012, 10:36:53 pm
Thanks barenekd and ace. Picking up an oil filter from a local shop today.
Will keep you posted, let me get to the basics first.

Ace - i've been reading a little on the 535 mods and the kit, tempting.

- - any recommendations on Oil / Plugs / what to stay away from.
- - do i need any special tools., must have's.
- - Shell Rotella 20/40 Full Synthetic - is this a good option.


I would wait until at least 1500miles before switching to synthetic.
Do it on your next oil change.

Most all tools you need for normal maintenance are in the factory tool kit, or in your normal toolbox.. You really don't need anything special unless you are going to go pretty deep into the engine or gearbox.

I use the BR9ES NGK, or B9ES, and they always work nice, IMO.

For the performance stuff, just ask me when you are ready. It's very important to leave the head stock until you are ready to have it ported professionally. We can't port the head properly if some material was removed that we needed to be there.

I work with NField Gear for some of the parts we use, and I also make the critical performance parts, and do the precision machine work.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 10:42:13 pm by ace.cafe »
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single

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Reply #6 on: January 25, 2012, 11:41:07 am
 Shell is ok,I have used it,but a motorcycle specific oil is better,being formulated for an air cooled engine,a zddp enhancement is a good idea.STP has zddp in it,I use 1/2 container per oil change.Answers to all questions are in previous threads here.If you go back thru a couple of years and study them you will have a good idea of the care and feeding needs.They are many.Have a good ride.


rxr2012

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Reply #7 on: January 25, 2012, 12:42:29 pm
thanks ACE., looking at google maps you are not that far from north GA. :) , that is when i am ready for the perf stuff. Not much time to work on it yesterday, hopefully will get something going today.

My other motorcycle is a FZ1- Gen1, i have been with Rotella 20-40FullSyn, abt 20+change at wally, i have had a good 28k miles on it so far, no slipping or dragging.

thanks Single - i will learn to search more ;(, only getting started here.
thanks again !
2003 Classic 500 4SPD
2003 Yamaha FZ1


mleo

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Reply #8 on: January 28, 2012, 06:24:41 pm
Valve clearance to tight?


rxr2012

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Reply #9 on: January 29, 2012, 04:17:00 pm
>> Engine Oil Changed 20/50 valvoline.
>> BR9ES Plug at .5mm gap.
>> Clutch Case - ATF changed.( Castrol ATF)
>> Clutch Chain Slack Adjusted.
>> K&N Air Filter - removed the Stock can.
>> Carbs Cleaned - Air Screw at 1.5 turns out, Idle at 6.,
needle at full rich, if you hold it up, C-clip on lowest position.
>> Timing - Full Advance ( it was in the Middle earlier ), point gap set.
-- been thru the timing like 10 times now and full advance seems to keep
it away from missing.


Issues.
1. Same clutch drag still exists, does not even climb a small hill ;(
2. See a lot of smoke thru exhaust - only when i rev it up.
3. Plugs - dark and see some oil in there.
4. Noticed Oil from the de-compression plug area.


Where do i go from here, pls help.

Thanks

2003 Classic 500 4SPD
2003 Yamaha FZ1


The Garbone

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Reply #10 on: January 29, 2012, 04:58:43 pm
Clutch drag or slip.   I think it would be slip if it will not climb a hill.

Is this a 5 speed or 4 speed as I think the 65 was the 5spd version.

The 4 speed clutch basket has one fewer plate than the 5spd and is a bit more finicky to adjust out slip and drag.      On my 4spd I had to adjust it on the bar for the first few 100 miles as the cable would stretch.  I would start out fine and then get drag later on as it stretched.   The cable  eventually settled down and all was good but the adjustment was one or two turns of the ferrel on the lever, its just that sensitive with the 4 speed.    Other things I did with both my bikes it install barnett clutch plates and 3 heavy duty springs.   Neither ever slip and my 4spd pulls a hack.  I run ATF-F as it has friction modifiers.

Sounds like you might need to tweak your jetting and neddle.   Sounds like your running rich but that is just a guess.   Is the smoke white or black.   White smoke might be condensation blowing out when the engine is first started and warming up.   

About the oil oozing,  you might want to pull the tank and rocker covers and retorque the head bolts ( suggested to be done 1000 miles or so) to 20lbs.   

Don't frett too much,  the bike is not really broke in yet and won't be till about 1500 or 2000 miles,  the transmission in particular.     
Gary
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rxr2012

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Reply #11 on: January 29, 2012, 05:15:08 pm
Its a 4SPD, filled with Castrol Type F - ATF.
The smoke's black, getting more oil in there is what i am thinking.

Any recommendations on the carb - richness, the jets are stock.
Plan to change them to 27.5 / 127.5.

Will post some pictures shortly.
2003 Classic 500 4SPD
2003 Yamaha FZ1


Blltrdr

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Reply #12 on: January 29, 2012, 06:08:03 pm
I would say you have multiple problems.

I'm not sure if I understand your timing setting. What did you mean by full advance, in the middle earlier?

Not a good sign if you have oil coming out of your decompressor and smoke coming out the pipe.
Does the smoke subside after it has been running for a while?
What color is the smoke?
Do you have plenty of compression when kicking it over? If not you might try removing your spark plug and squirt some oil into the cylinder. Also try rotating your decompressor. This might clean off whatever is keeping it from sealing. Now see if your compression seems different. Did you check your valve settings as someone previously asked?  Maybe run some SeaFoam in your gas 1 can treats 3 tank fills. This might help clean up the deposits you most likely have on piston top and combustion chamber.

With the amount of miles you state are on this bike it is very possible it wasn't broken in properly. If the previous owner didn't do the proper break in your motor could be toast with 800+ miles on it. This is not unusual, especially for people who are used to modern bikes and who hate reading manuals. Let's hope I'm incorrect! It takes about 1500 miles to properly break in a Bullet which starts out with a laborous and somewhat exhaustive slow speed break in period.

Your clutch slips. What adjustments did you do to the clutch other than change the oil? I would suspect your throwout adjustment is off.

Do you have manuals? How much knowledge would you say you have when it comes to the maintenance procedures? There is a lot to learn if you haven't already done so. They are a simple bike to work on in old school speak but it does take some time to figure out the maintenance/adjustments and peculiarities. There are plenty of knowledgeable Bullet owners on this forum that will take the time to help you work through your problems.

I would methodically go through the bike top to bottom.
 
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 06:27:01 pm by Blltrdr »
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2009 HD FLHT Police 103 6 spd
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rxr2012

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Reply #13 on: January 29, 2012, 10:51:56 pm
Changed another plug, starts on the first kick and idles well.
Smoke's gone after the first few minutes., used to be black now its more white.
Plenty of compression kicking it in.
Tappet to the left had a little play adjusted that.

Clutch adjustment done so far,
1. Tightened chain slack inside clutch case.
2. Adjusted the clutch cable by the gear box, atleast 4 times and none of
the settings helped.

Another thing noticed is, its chokes on throttle on the road - but fine on the center stand.

I have the manuals. thanks for the seafoam idea, i am going to drain the tank first and fill with higher octane and the seafoam.

Here the next plan - unless you guys suggest otherwise,

1. Drain gas / SeaFoam and 93 Octane.
2. Ordered the jets. - 27.5 and 127.5
3. as Garbone suggested - re-torque the valves.
4. Clutch Adjustment ? - what else to do.
Do i need to swap out clutch plates, or there any other
adjustments other than the lock nut in the gear box.

5. Change - GEAr grease?

thanks in advance



2003 Classic 500 4SPD
2003 Yamaha FZ1


rxr2012

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Reply #14 on: January 29, 2012, 11:02:52 pm
Here are some pictures.



Fouled Plug, after 2 mile run.


Points - Top Screw(B) was in the middle, current setup


Decompression Oil Leak


K&N Filter.

« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 11:24:01 pm by rxr2012 »
2003 Classic 500 4SPD
2003 Yamaha FZ1