Author Topic: Engine clattering (Read 19070 times)

barenekd · **on:** December 16, 2011, 06:47:17 pm

WillW,
My engine is clattering and sounds like what you were describing when you were having troubles with your engine. I know what mine is, though. It's the compression release mechanism. It only does it on cold starts, down around 40-50 degrees. It was giving me fits yesterday. the engine would start then quit and attempted restarts flooded it. It was a pain as the decompression arm is clattering away. Finally got it cleared out so it would run, and as usual once it warmed up a bit it stops banging around.
So in the spirit of old aviation mechanics, I'm going to dump a little Marvel Mystery Oil in the crankcase and see if that frees it up so it will work properly. Otherwise, I have too pull the timing cover off to fix the seeping, so then I can take a real look at it. I'm waiting for gasket so I can take the thing apart.

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #1 on:** December 16, 2011, 06:58:31 pm

With the colder weather I've been getting some decompressor clatter on start ups too. Usually clears up with a few gentle twists of the throttle. In warm weather I never hear it.

Scott

Maturin · **Reply #2 on:** December 16, 2011, 07:06:30 pm

When it´s really the auto decompressor then it´s probably not necessary to worry much. Mine clatters occasionally after cold starts since 10´kms. The colder the ofterer. Then there is a somewhat loader "clunck" and it´s released, stops clattering and runs normally.
With regards to the gasket: it doesn´t have to take much oil pressure and I had no problems to remove it and reuse it afterwards.
But tell us, Bare, which kind of witch powder do you inject into your oil pot?
Regards

Fox · **Reply #3 on:** December 16, 2011, 07:15:01 pm

Quote from: Ducati Scotty on December 16, 2011, 06:58:31 pm

With the colder weather I've been getting some decompressor clatter on start ups too. Usually clears up with a few gentle twists of the throttle. In warm weather I never hear it.

Scott

+1 on a blipping the throttle a tiny bit. Once it snaps out of it, it's usually fine.

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #4 on:** December 16, 2011, 07:24:18 pm

Marvel mystery can't hurt. If there's a bit of carbon or sludge it should help clean it up.

Scott

2bikebill · **Reply #5 on:** December 16, 2011, 07:42:19 pm

I still don't know what the cause of my clattering engine was. I do know they removed the auto decompressor the first time the bike went in, but it made no difference. I never really thought that was the cause - it'd given trouble early on and was a much different sound. The later bothersome clatter was continuous, and louder when the engine was at full running temperature.
Mike at WS was going to let me know exactly what has been replaced this time, but he hasn't got back to me yet - they're a bit like that at WS.....
He did say during an earlier phone conversation that they never found anything they could pin down as the specific cause. I do know the main bearings and the piston rings were replaced, but not sure about anything in the valve train.
I only got to ride it twice for about 50 & 30 miles before the serious winter weather set in, and it's certainly quieter, a bit ticky but nothing I'd worry about. Now it's tucked up in it's winter quarters for the duration. Frustrating....

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #6 on:** December 16, 2011, 07:43:34 pm

I still suspect excessive cam gear lash on yours Will.

Scott

2bikebill · **Reply #7 on:** December 16, 2011, 07:57:46 pm

You may be right. I'll be checking it out after 500 miles...

barenekd · **Reply #8 on:** December 16, 2011, 08:25:01 pm

Quote

But tell us, Bare, which kind of witch powder do you inject into your oil pot?

It's got Mobil 1 VTwin in it. Should work. I thought I had some Marvel in the garage,but I can't find it. I've go to run down and get some.
Bare

Arizoni · **Reply #9 on:** December 16, 2011, 11:22:33 pm

My G5 is doing the compression release clatter when starting at temperatures in the 40's (F) but after a blip of the throttle it goes away.

I suspect it is because I'm running Mobil 1 VTwin 20-50 oil rather than a 15-50.

Thicker oil gets kinda gooey at low temperatures and something like that is all it takes for a little centrifugally operated part like the CR to want to stay where it is rather than to move at an idle speed like it is supposed to.

I am rather surprised to hear that Hitchcock removed the CR from WillW's bike.
That little part is a major part of the "Save the Sprag Clutch" design on the UCE.

singhg5 · **Reply #10 on:** December 16, 2011, 11:48:37 pm

I did not have this problem until this winter. Now on a cold morning, when I first start my G5 it produces 'ctuck' 'ctuck' valve noise. I do not like this sound, so I give throttle a gentle blip and hold it for a few seconds and then let it idle at its own pace, as the sound goes away with slightly more throttle. There is no clatter sound rest of the day.

I think the oil is thick and gooey in the early morning and not enough pressure is built up in the hydraulic lifter. Perhaps a bit of SEAFOAM in the crankcase may clean & release sticky hydraulic lifters.

barenekd · **Reply #11 on:** December 17, 2011, 12:17:30 am

Quote

My G5 is doing the compression release clatter when starting at temperatures in the 40's (F) but after a blip of the throttle it goes away.

Usually that's the way mine works, too. But yesterday at about 45 degrees it started hten was slapping in and really going bonkers. I tried to rev it and it just quit. I had to recycle everything to restart it, then it was flooded so had to open the throttle to get it cleared out. It quit again. I went through that a couple more times before it finally kept running. It was fine after that.
I poured the Marvel Mystery oil in it, then hit the starter button. It started without even a clack. But it was in the 50s so warm enough not to go through the ritual. It obviously wasn't the MMO as I hadn't stirred it into in the witch's brew yet. I ran it for a few minutes to get it stirred up though, so the AM may tell the tale.
Bare

2bikebill · **Reply #12 on:** December 17, 2011, 09:17:43 am

Arizoni - it wasn't Hitchcocks, it was Watsonian Squire. It surprised me too, when they told me several months after the fact.... $:-\$ All they told me at the time was they'd replaced the sprag, which puzzled me as the sprag hadn't been faulty! Presumably they'd mis-diagnosed the clattering as the auto decomp, removed it, and fitted the newer more robust sprag to compensate. None of it had anything to do with what was wrong with the bike, and I'm just a little pissed off that I now have no auto decomp fitted. It makes kick starting really hard.

t120rbullet · **Reply #13 on:** December 17, 2011, 03:33:27 pm

Quote from: WillW on December 17, 2011, 09:17:43 am

I'm just a little pissed off that I now have no auto decomp fitted. It makes kick starting really hard.

1 # 570104 Fly Weight
1 # 570105 Pivot
1 # 570110 Pin Assembly
1 # 570108 Torsion Spring
1 # 570416 Gasket, Cover
1 # 570293 O-Ring, Oil Pump Outlet

Right around $35 US and an hours work and you could become one with the kick starter again.
A gentle de-burring with a stone and those parts may not stick and clatter anymore too.
CJ

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #14 on:** December 17, 2011, 04:49:44 pm

Sink, I run 20w50 Mobil 1 too.

2bikebill · **Reply #15 on:** December 17, 2011, 06:29:25 pm

Thanks CJ . I've saved the info and will very likely have a crack at re-installation when spring comes round again....

barenekd · **Reply #16 on:** December 17, 2011, 06:34:11 pm

I started mine this morning, but it was about 15 degrees warmer than it has been, so it started up without the clacking. Supposed to be cold again tomorrow, so it'll get another chance.
Bare

jartist · **Reply #17 on:** December 17, 2011, 07:41:55 pm

I've had both the auto decompression clack noise upon startup and the clatter problem and they are very different noises and sources. The decompresser clack noise is a slow clack clack and went away quickly so I never worried about it much. The clatter noise is a loud constant clattering noise that is in time with the valves and it's horrible. Ive heard cars with stuck lifters and it sounds just the same. They took the auto decompresser out to try to fix it but the noise came back. Im 90% sure it's a stuck lifter but nobody cares what I think and its at the shopfor the third time for the same thing and they are shaving a few thousandths off the head to try to fix it. We'll see. Bikes been in the shop for a cumulative total of over two months now.

jartist · **Reply #18 on:** December 17, 2011, 07:47:05 pm

I should add that I've been reluctant to post because the dealer and CMW are committed to fixing it but I feel like nobody has a clue what's really wrong and I'm starting to feel like a bit of a guinea pig.

2bikebill · **Reply #19 on:** December 17, 2011, 08:20:29 pm

You have my sympathy & empathy John. I fear you may be right - no one does know what is the cause of this clattering. As I've said, my engine was stripped down and nothing specific could be found which would cause it. I was told that if the clattering was gone when I got the bike back, it was just lucky!
Scott may be right about the cam gear backlash - it's something which isn't mentioned in the service schedule, and is only touched on in the workshop manual. Apparently if it isn't adjusted after the first 500 miles, and there is backlash, then it can't be adjusted out later!
I was convinced it was something like a stuck lifter - as you say, that's exactly what it sound like! But WS insist there was nothing amiss in the valve train. I was starting to feel like they just wished I would go away and learn to live with it.....But kudos to them, they went above & beyond the call of duty to fix it. I just wish I could get some miles on the bike to see how it settles in....
I'd really like to know how this progresses for you. If CMW are on the case then you're in good hands - I'm darn sure they're as keen to get to the bottom of it as we are.
Good luck. Be persistent, and please definitely report back when you know something.
Will

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #20 on:** December 17, 2011, 08:25:47 pm

Quote from: jartist on December 17, 2011, 07:47:05 pm

I should add that I've been reluctant to post because the dealer and CMW are committed to fixing it but I feel like nobody has a clue what's really wrong and I'm starting to feel like a bit of a guinea pig.

Jartist, they may not know what's wrong yet but if they've committed to fix it then it will get fixed. Patience.

Will, yeah, the manual hardly touches on it. I'm still not sure how I'd adjust it if I needed to. The manual is very vague. Maybe it would make more sense if I was looking right at it and had the gears and bolts in front of me.

Scott

2bikebill · **Reply #21 on:** December 17, 2011, 08:41:19 pm

It is pretty vague isn't it, just an aside in the chain adjustment section if I remember rightly. As you say, probably clearer when you can actually see the workings in front of you. It ought perhaps to be mentioned in the owners manual too. I doubt it ever gets done at the first service. The mechanic at my dealer hadn't a clue what I was talking about. Worrying...... $:-\$
I haven't been back....

barenekd · **Reply #22 on:** December 17, 2011, 08:42:30 pm

I could recommend you try some Marvel Mystery Oil. That's the kind of stuff it works on. I've never known it to harm an engine, but I do know that it has cleared up some sticky stuff, valves, lifters, etc.
Bare

Maturin · **Reply #23 on:** December 17, 2011, 09:42:37 pm

Quote from: barenekd on December 17, 2011, 08:42:30 pm

I could recommend you try some Marvel Mystery Oil

I beg your pardon, Sir, I thought you were making jokes! Is there really something like Marvel Mystery Oil? You´re kidding me, aren´t you?

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #24 on:** December 17, 2011, 09:56:15 pm

Totally real: http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/

It's basically a thin, bright red, highly detergent oil. Add it to your crankcase and it can work it's way into all kinds of crevices and help clean out built up carbon and gook. It doesn't always work but I've never heard of it hurting anything and the next step is usually taking things apart so it's always a good first step.

And it's not snake oil, it really can fix things.

Scott

Arizoni · **Reply #25 on:** December 17, 2011, 10:51:41 pm

I think Marvel Mystery Oil has been around since before the Gillmore Red Lion was racing the Gee-Bee in the air races of the late '20's.

Here we are 80+ years later and still, no one (except the maker) knows what's in it.

barenekd · **Reply #26 on:** December 17, 2011, 11:09:01 pm

It's been around since 1923. The FAA usually doesn't condone additives to oil and gas, but they always turn the blind eye to MMO, because they know it works, but even they can't figure out why. It's very common stuff in the aviation world. people put in the gas and oil. It cleans the carbon out of the combustion chamber and lubes the valves when it's in the gas, and loosens up sticky things when it's in the oil. Great stuff.
It's available at auto parts stores, and not terribly expensive. Less then a good quart of oil. Mix about 20% in your oil supply.
Bare.

jartist · **Reply #27 on:** December 18, 2011, 04:40:41 am

If I had it to do again I'd try some marvel mystery oil or something like it first. I've always suspected that the valve lifters are just gummed up and that the gear shavings and clutch debris is hard on lifters.

Maturin · **Reply #28 on:** December 18, 2011, 11:33:34 am

I´ll never have doubts in my fellow Enfield riders no more...
But the name was so close to "magical mystery tour", it must have been a joke...not!

singhg5 · **Reply #29 on:** December 18, 2011, 04:52:25 pm

Quote from: jartist on December 17, 2011, 07:41:55 pm

I've had both the auto decompression clack noise upon startup and the clatter problem and they are very different noises and sources. The decompresser clack noise is a slow clack clack and went away quickly so I never worried about it much. The clatter noise is a loud constant clattering noise that is in time with the valves and it's horrible. Ive heard cars with stuck lifters and it sounds just the same. They took the auto decompresser out to try to fix it but the noise came back. Im 90% sure it's a stuck lifter but nobody cares what I think and its at the shopfor the third time for the same thing and they are shaving a few thousandths off the head to try to fix it. We'll see. Bikes been in the shop for a cumulative total of over two months now.

I completely agree with you that the noise you heard and some of us experience on our bikes is Valve Train Noise, not decompresser clack. This noise has been heard under many different conditions - it has been heard in some brand new bikes or it has developed after a few months to a few years older bikes. To further complicate this situation, this has been accepted as 'normal' to 'annoying' to 'something-is-wrong it-needs-to-be-fixed'. If this is not enough, there is no clear answer for the cause of this issue from the manufacturer / dealers / importers, except that sometimes they will tell the rider 'Don't worry', 'We've heard it before' and sometimes they will open the engine and replace some parts and the noise goes away without fully understanding what cured it.

The valve noise can be due to deviation in form or function of any one of the many different parts - valve, stem, rocker arm, rocker bearing, pushrod, hydraulic lifters, cams etc. In some cases it is dysfunction (sticking or loosening) of one of the parts, while in a very few cases it may be the deviation in the form of the part. I have never seen a deformed part that was linked to the noise with certainty.

Cold temperature related clatter noise appears to be due to dysfunction, and cleaning the innards would be the first choice in my opinion.

@MATURIN:

The name 'Marvel Mystery Oil' does look fictitious and when I had first read about it I thought the same as you did

! But I have tried it in my car. It is used in the engine oil and in gas tank.

Here is what it looks like -

Maturin · **Reply #30 on:** December 18, 2011, 09:52:00 pm

The biggest problem of this damned clatter is that the mills don´t explode after they´ve clattered long enough. This would ease a diagnosis considerably.
Nothing seems to break. It´s just that it...clatters

Maturin · **Reply #31 on:** December 18, 2011, 10:02:35 pm

Singh, thanks or the picture. Unfortunately it´s not available in Europe. Regards

Lwt Big Cheese · **Reply #32 on:** December 18, 2011, 10:45:37 pm

We don't get MMO.

But we do get Slick and STP etc oh and Redex.

Now it seems to me people are either absolutely for or alternatively absolutely against these products. We have Marmite, a yeast based spread here. The ad campaign goes Marmite you either love it or hate it!

I remember being told that Redex was basically paraffin or kerosene as you guys call it. Or snake oil...

The way I look at all these things is like this, imagine the SAS or Green Beret's or SEAL Team 6 have a mission that has to be successful. Even if nobody returns from the mision. And they take vehicles. They must get there at any cost. Do they do a quick oil change and then bung it a magic potion so they can complete their mission even if the sump is shot out?

No do they buggery. They just use regular oils.

I'm not judging here. If it's the best thing since sliced bread, good. But I'm a cynical old fart. And this makes interesting reading:
http://www.skepdic.com/slick50.html

GlennF · **Reply #33 on:** December 18, 2011, 11:05:22 pm

I get an occasional clatter similar to pinging on my B5 but I am using 95 octane so its not from pinging. Probably valve train noise but its not overly annoying.

prof_stack · **Reply #34 on:** December 19, 2011, 01:04:59 am

Marvel Mystery Oil is $9 a quart or $6 for a pint here in Seattle. It has been around for quite a while so there is probably benefit in using it.

Arizoni · **Reply #35 on:** December 19, 2011, 01:56:43 am

I'm not a fan of additives for fuel or oil although I have used a fuel injector cleaner in the fuel tank on my BMW K75 when it started running poorly.

I am also not going to tell someone else not to use an additive although I may mention that some additives are nothing more than diesel fuel or kerosene in a fancy can. If they want to use it, that's their business.

The way I figure it, if these things were all their cracked up to be the major oil companies would be fighting with one another for the exclusive rights to put some of it into their oil. That ain't happening.

I do know that different oil companies use different detergents so if a car has been using one brand of oil for years it isn't a good idea to change to a different brand.
The new brand's detergent may attack the accumulated gunk that's been peacefully building up in harmless places and suddenly it is being washed off into the oil to be circulated thru the bearings.

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #36 on:** December 19, 2011, 06:31:14 am

Big Cheese, I'm with you. Almost all oil additives are crap that don't do 1% of what they say. It's snake oil in the purest sense. But Marvel Mystery oil has been around forever and it really does work for things like sticky lifters and gummed up carbs & jets. You just add it to the crankcase oil and/or fuel and things usually do get better. I've known countless people who've used it with good results (including me). When it doesn't help it never seems to do any harm. I think it's just a bunch of oils and solvents, it may be no more than kerosene/parafin and ATF. Will it re-line your bearings? Is it an engine rebuild in a bottle? No, but it really is good stuff and very inexpensive to boot.

Scott

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #37 on:** December 19, 2011, 06:37:10 am

Oh, and here's the Mystery of what's in it:

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/pdfs/MSDS/Marvel_Mystery/Marvel-MSDS.pdf

Scott

2bikebill · **Reply #38 on:** December 19, 2011, 08:51:38 am

So basically, Coca Cola.......

Speaking of snake oil additives, the fuel catalyst has been around for decades. It comes under various trade names but is basically a bit of metal, mostly tin and some secret stuff (coca cola I expect) which you drop into your tank and it stops pinging, gumming, improves performance & mpg, lets you run vintage engines on unleaded petrol, prolongs engine life, and cures coughs, colds & pimples on your parts for all I know. These things have been scientifically & comprehensively proven to have no effect whatsoever, yet are still sold (online and from witches) with the same claims and testimonials.
Can an engine benefit from the placebo effect? Its owner can it seems.....

Just eat a bit of marmite every day, on warm toast with plenty of butter, and everything will be fine with the world....

Lwt Big Cheese · **Reply #39 on:** December 19, 2011, 10:13:35 am

Ooo I love Marmite. On hot buttered toast.

Apparently its good spread on toast before adding the cheese under the grill, but I've not tried that.

2bikebill · **Reply #40 on:** December 19, 2011, 10:32:23 am

I can confirm it is so.

Also, when having marmite on hot buttered toast, add thin slices of cucumber on top.

barenekd · **Reply #41 on:** December 19, 2011, 04:47:17 pm

A quart of MMO is $4.99 at O'Reilly's in SoCal.
SInce I put some in my bike the clattering has minimized to nothing are may one clack when I start it in the morning, but on the other hand, it's not quite as cold as it was the morning it was really giving me hell. So, I can't honestly offer anything absolutely conclusive. But it did refill my oil tank, so that's OK.
Bare

singhg5 · **Reply #42 on:** December 19, 2011, 07:05:25 pm

Quote from: Ducati Scotty on December 19, 2011, 06:31:14 am

But Marvel Mystery oil has been around forever and it really does work for things like sticky lifters and gummed up carbs & jets. You just add it to the crankcase oil and/or fuel and things usually do get better. I've known countless people who've used it with good results (including me)..

Count me in there too - MMO has cleaned up my car's fuel injector and engine, absolutely no doubt about it.

Here is a recent post 'Bike Ran Fine, Then Died' in Classic Section - The spark plug pictures show results obtained by Jdrouin as he decoked his REs combustion chamber, got rid of built up carbon by simply adding MMO to chamber and soaking for a couple of hours.

http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,12722.0/all.html

2bikebill · **Reply #43 on:** December 19, 2011, 07:13:46 pm

That's the coca cola doing its stuff......

singhg5 · **Reply #44 on:** December 19, 2011, 07:24:27 pm

Quote from: WillW on December 19, 2011, 07:13:46 pm

That's the coca cola doing its stuff......

! You are right Will.

Coca cola will do the same

- It has phosphoric acid - H3PO4, which is the active ingredient of many commercially sold rust converters / dissolvers / removers such as Naval Jelly.

@Maturin:

First marvel mystery oil taking my car on a marvelously magical mystery tour to strawberry fields and now this thingy... naval jelly. What is with these names ? Is it for REal

!

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #45 on:** December 19, 2011, 07:31:52 pm

Yeah, first time I heard 'Naval Jelly' I thought the guy was pulling my chain.

Scott

barenekd · **Reply #46 on:** December 19, 2011, 08:13:38 pm

The only thing I ever heard Naval Jelly being used for is rust removal.
Bare

2bikebill · **Reply #47 on:** December 19, 2011, 09:19:02 pm

They have it for tea on ships, with that naval peanut butter.....

barenekd · **Reply #48 on:** December 19, 2011, 10:19:00 pm

Betcha never used Prop Wash on your bike, either.
bare

Arizoni · **Reply #49 on:** December 19, 2011, 10:52:54 pm

Some builders of muzzleloading rifles and pistols use Naval Jelly on the outside of their barrels.
If left on the surfaces for a few hours it will lightly pit/etch the metal giving a dull silver look.

Scotty: Thanks for the Haz Mat information about MMO.
After reading it I've figured out what does all of the wondrous things.
It's the Oil of Wintergreen scent!

GlennF · **Reply #50 on:** December 20, 2011, 12:07:04 am

Quote from: barenekd on December 19, 2011, 10:19:00 pm

Betcha never used Prop Wash on your bike, either.
bare

Will give you another 5 mph on your bullet ....

SimonT · **Reply #51 on:** December 20, 2011, 12:32:53 am

I have to chime in here on the annoying rattles and clanging going on inside my engine.

By nature the engine is a bit rattly... which is fair enough.

Mine also get louder at a specific RPM.

For example... when im in 5th gear the rattle becomes louder at about 75-90km/h
Above and below that it seems to be less...

its also louder on deceleration over acceleration and cruising.

Also... it seems to be louder when the engine is hotter (i assume the oil is thinner causing this?)....

Any thoughts on what is going on here, or does anyone experience something similar?

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #52 on:** December 20, 2011, 01:50:34 am

There will be a resonant frequency for each engine where there's more noise and vibration. It will be different over time and may change as you put more miles on the engine.

It will make more noise when it's hot. The oil is thin and damps all noises less.

That said, check your chain tension. I've found things get ugly on decel if the chain is too loose. And if you're under 2000 miles (~3000km) just keep riding until you get there. That's when most folks find the engine really breaks in.

If you're concerned stop at your dealer, have him listen or maybe take a spin. If it's excessive he should be able to tell you.

Scott

SimonT · **Reply #53 on:** December 20, 2011, 02:24:44 am

cool thanks... ill check the chain tension

It could just be my brain, but it does sound louder. Ive shown the dealer before (a few thousand kms ago) and he gave me the 'its normal' line.

Ive done about 8500 km now, so all well and truly run in.
Ive still got over a year on warranty, so if the engine dies its not biggy... its just the rattling is annoying.... and i dont want to get stranded anywhere. I plan on doing a 600km round trip between christmas and new years...

GlennF · **Reply #54 on:** December 20, 2011, 03:16:48 am

Yeah I get a slight rattle on deceleration, especially downhill, as well. It occasionally also shows up when riding at steady speed at lowish revs, never under acceleration or when riding hard.

I originally thought it might be because those rubber fin separator thingamajigs fell out. It doesn't really sound to bad to me but I suppose I should get around to tracking it down one day

Chain tension is a good starting point, good idea.

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #55 on:** December 20, 2011, 04:08:42 am

If it's a tin can rattle check the front of the heatshield. Also, make a video of the noise, even if it's with a cheap cell phone. You can always record again later to compare.

If makes you feel better I always thought my bike was too loud. After over 8000 miles it's either settled in or I got used to it BUT every time I ask the dealer to ride it they say it's the smoothest and fastest C5 they'be ridden yet, and they ride them all the time.

Scott

2bikebill · **Reply #56 on:** December 20, 2011, 08:39:24 am

Both my bikes sound a lot better when I wear earplugs.....

prof_stack · **Reply #57 on:** December 20, 2011, 04:19:22 pm

Quote from: WillW on December 20, 2011, 08:39:24 am

Both my bikes sound a lot better when I wear earplugs.....

+1

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #58 on:** December 20, 2011, 05:30:40 pm

+1. Also works for wives and crying babies.

wildbill · **Reply #59 on:** February 04, 2012, 02:25:19 am

My opinion of the top end chatter. Last year I bought a 2007 BMW Z4 or the $55k Lemon with only 26,000klm. In 2006 BMW went to the full alloy N52 motor which powered the 2.5 and 3.0 litre motors. This motor was fitted with solid lifters.
A few days after I bought it I kicked it over one morning and the motor was rattling. .....like marbles in a tin can. This occurred on a regular basis.
I joined the BMWZ4 forum and found not only did i have the solid lifter problem but there were 100s of disatisfied USA owners too. First BMW tried different fixes such as replacing all solid lifter. That only worked for a few thousand klm and the rattle was back.
In the end the fix was solved by totally replacing the head and cam gear with a fully revised unit,
Unfortunately my car was 3 months out of warranty and not covered. The previous owner had heard the noise and complained to the dealer and was told it was just low on oil and needed a top up.
BMW AUSTRALIA did offer me the complete new head and cam gear at $10k for the head and $2.5k for the fit. Sounds a lot but this car cost $109k new. I sold the car.
Some BMW forum members had been driving there car for years like it but the rattling away would give you a PINA
This new UCE may have a similar lifter problem. Only time will tell.

Arizoni · **Reply #60 on:** February 04, 2012, 04:43:22 am

Sorry about your Z4.
The UCE has hydraulic valve lifters and if there is a problem with them it will be so loud that any normal person would be afraid to even sit on their bike.

I am trying to figure out why my G5's engine is so quiet in the morning when I start it.

While it's about 50 degrees F in the morning and idling it does not have any tapping, ticking or knocking sound at all. Just the chug chug chug of the exhaust.

When it gets warmed up all of the good old summertime sounds return.

Desi Bike · **Reply #61 on:** February 04, 2012, 06:03:55 pm

Oil thins out when it gets warmed up. What ever is causing the summertime banging is something with a very small clearance, thick cold start oil fills the gap.

ROVERMAN · **Reply #62 on:** February 04, 2012, 08:53:04 pm

I don't have a UCE Enfield but, i can tell you that the clattering noise that seems to be attributed to the lifters is more than likely a design flaw. When i worked on Mazda s back in the eighties we started using "hydraulic lash adjusters" on most of our engines. The Mx5 4 cylinder used inverted buckets and were relatively trouble free, as was most everything on that car. But the "finger" style lifters used in the V6 and larger fours were a nightmare. We had several updates and service bulletins on the death clack from hell but they never fully cured the problem until the engines were superseded by another design.
One important thing was that despite the noise emanating from under the hoods of these vehicles i never heard of any damage or engine failures as a result of the noisy lifters. Hopefully the factory are aware and will respond with some real action in the future.
Robert & REnfield.

Maturin · **Reply #63 on:** February 05, 2012, 01:17:13 pm

I´m constantly wonderig why there isn´t any damages reported by folks who´s engines are clattering. It´s occuring quite often, but there is not power loss, no oil consumption, no bad habits happening as a follower of the noise. Very odd indeed.
Did anyone had a look inside a cylinder head of a clunker?

aziai79 · **Reply #64 on:** February 10, 2012, 10:39:16 pm

I just went in for my first service (at 500 miles, which is what dealer recommended) and let them know about engine clattering sound on my g5 deluxe, which seems to be most noticeable at mid to high rpms of 2nd gear and low to mid rpms of 3rd gear. like other RE owners, noise does not affect performance, but is annoying as hell on any bike, much less a new one.

When I went to pick the bike up, dealer stated that they think they fixed the problem and that it was due to the heat shield being loose. turned bike on and rode off, and while bike definitely ran smoother after servicing, clattering noise was unfortunately still there.

bebopper · **Reply #65 on:** February 10, 2012, 10:58:23 pm

This has been mentioned before, but when the top end is disassembled, the right cover removed, and all the gunk blown out of the oil lines, the clatter has disappeared.

Maturin · **Reply #66 on:** February 11, 2012, 01:59:24 am

Quote from: bebopper on February 10, 2012, 10:58:23 pm

This has been mentioned before, but when the top end is disassembled, the right cover removed, and all the gunk blown out of the oil lines, the clatter has disappeared.

There are a couple of postings mentioning this phenomenon. However, it would indicate that oil lines are fully or partly blocked by gunk, reducing the head´s oil suply. This could even hamper the oil circuit as a whole, but at least it would jumble oil pressure.
But several mules actually do run clattering for quite a while now, mine clatters for 10´kms and I doubt it would have done that with a blocked oil line. I´d like to mention that I, sometimes, have a lot of fun opening up the throttle. Lot of fun, indeed.
I´m not sure if this could be the reason for the noise.

Arizoni · **Reply #67 on:** February 11, 2012, 04:06:44 am

bebopper: Which oil lines? The drilled passage that runs from the crankcase up to the cylinder head, the one that connects the hydraulic valve lifters to the passage I just mentioned, or both?

bebopper · **Reply #68 on:** February 11, 2012, 04:44:27 am

Both. The oil port between the cover and block just below a bolt tends to get plugged by sealant, and that can go into the head. This is after the filter. Scooter Bob has advised to use nothing but grease and I found that works quite well; no seeping with hard riding and there was seeping with sealant. Also, you can reuse the gasket since there's nothing to remove from either the gasket or the metal. Everything stays cleaner. But hey, what does Scooter Bob know!!