[bebopper]

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/mcd/2728335485.html

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/mcd/2728288855.html

[The Garbone]

Nice,  if this was a few months ago it might have been taken the trip... Oh well...   Good price..   

[Ducati Scotty]

Makes me wish I had time to take a vacay, fly to Georgia, and then ride home on a new bike.
Scott

[prof_stack]

Good deal for the buyer.  Bad news for resale value on our Enfields. 

[GreenMachine]

resale value i never thought of that as part of the equation when I laid down 5k in cash for a new out the door enfield back in 06.I figured a good running, garaged kept bike would always bring in 1800 dollars (today's money) or whatever yen that comes to in the near future... .. That;s a great price for a newer machine indeed...Someone gonna get a nice Christmas gift for sure...

[Vince]

     Greg, we seldom disagree, but this is one of those times.It is not a  dealer support issue. It has to do with the economy and the banks. My wife and I used to work together in the store, but for the past 3 years she has had to work outside the store. Her salary sees us through the winter. Business SUCKS! The dealer in Georgia is probably having the same issues. Also, a dealer floors the bikes. That means an outside company or bank  is fronting the money for the bikes and charging him 1 1/2% a month. When I had a dozen RE's on the floor it cost me nearly $1,500 a month. In this economy I can't sell enough bikes to cover that. The bikes also age out. The lender is probably calling in the loan. I know exactly what vise this guy is being squeezed in. He won't get the support he needs until Washington and Wall Street stop screwing us.

[barenekd]

Is this guy even still a dealer? I don't see him listed under the Georgia dealers.
Even more incentive to get rid of them. If I had any money, I'd be there. And prep for a cold ride back!
Bare

[GreenMachine]

Vince: that's what happen to my dealer..the accessories that he sold (not just enfield) helped a little...when his great mechanic went back to contracting work for private industry, well that was the beginning of  the end....I don't believe the rent for the bldg was a issue as the  owners was willing to bend over backwards to keep a good tenant in place...Throw in additional pressures ie. personal problems, etc, and it get real hairy..He use to sell Moto Guzzi but I remember him complaining about the same issue...In that case, he stated he was paying Moto Guzzi a fair amount every month for showcasing their product line...I don't believe he sold any of them but they were pretty. He finslly got sick of everyone going ga ga over them, no buyers and out the door they went..Yes indeed 1500 a month may not be seem alot but after 6 months or so it adds up..Regardless what orchestrated fiction  u see on the boob tube, thing are shacky still (apparently all over) maybe things will start edging positive in 3 years or so..Wild fluctuation of 100-400 points over polticial farting , middle class realignment (new buzz word) , rear end posturing and putting more fingers in the holes, well I'll digress, but hey a good screwing can be good too... Just depends who's has ther power tool.  

[Fox]

If it is the case that this guy is no longer a dealer, that means these bikes likely have no warranty, and are simply priced accordingly to move them quickly.

I would like to say, that the economy is no excuse for crappy service. When a customer buys a bike from a dealer, he expects it to be supported as promised. Believe me, it sucks to have a dealer renege on their end of the deal. But I guess maybe it's my fault for not throwing big or public enough a tantrum. Who knows.

[gashousegorilla]

     Greg, we seldom disagree, but this is one of those times.It is not a  dealer support issue. It has to do with the economy and the banks. My wife and I used to work together in the store, but for the past 3 years she has had to work outside the store. Her salary sees us through the winter. Business SUCKS! The dealer in Georgia is probably having the same issues. Also, a dealer floors the bikes. That means an outside company or bank  is fronting the money for the bikes and charging him 1 1/2% a month. When I had a dozen RE's on the floor it cost me nearly $1,500 a month. In this economy I can't sell enough bikes to cover that. The bikes also age out. The lender is probably calling in the loan. I know exactly what vise this guy is being squeezed in. He won't get the support he needs until Washington and Wall Street stop screwing us.

Interesting..... I had always assumed, I guess naively, that  there was some kind of consignment arrangement, backed up by a surety Bond or contract between the Dealer and Manufacturer/ Distributor etc?  So, the dealer has to lay out all of the Money, either his own or through a loan to purchase the Bikes first?  The Manufacturer or distributor sells the bikes to the dealers?
 It would seem that the dealers are taking on a large part or most of the risk?  The manufacturer sells the bikes to a distributor and takes a profit. The distributor sells the bikes to the dealer, and takes a profit, Then it is up to the dealer to retail the bikes at a profit?  Man, how do you do it when you have to take out loans and pay interest?  How many bikes can you sell !?
 Wouldn't  the manufacturer be in a better position to assume more of the risk? They would most likely be in a better position as far as capital goes, for things like marketing and etc.?  These maybe stupid questions, but..........

[Kevin Mahoney]

For the life of me I have never understood why anyone would buy a bike over the internet with no dealer support. Guess people get wives that way so I should not be surprised.
Being in the motorcycle business is a very tough deal. Witness the thousands of dealers  that went out of business along with some OEM's during the past few years. Most of those that did go out of business either had so many bikes (meaning hundreds) that they could not sell them quickly enough to keep the cash flowing or were small without capital reserves. Anyone that thinks this is either easy or big money at any level probably wants to open a restaurant as well.

LIke any business we all put our capital at risk. Those that make the steel risk their money, those that make the bikes risk their capital against the idea that they can make a profit, people like me risk our capital in hopes of selling product and making money as does the motorcycle dealer. No different than any other business. We all have finance costs, those of us with cash risk that cash and hope we can make more with it than leaving it under our mattress (not a safe bet by the way). Dealers have a cost of doing business just like anyone else, interest or cost of capital, rent, employees, taxes etc. Usually it is not any one thing that brings a business down. Some dealers I know only made it through because they had a strong service department or strong accessory sales etc.

It is toughest for the small dealer who does not have enough coming in to put money away but needs it to feed his or her family. People like Vince and others have to fight each and every day to stay in business. Being in small business is one of the most challenging things you can do. This is one of the biggest troubles with people in government, they are only capable of spending your money because they have never earned it themselves. I am a well educated businessman with a Masters degree in Business from a top school. I am of the opinion that all of the degrees in the world don't mean a thing unless you have personally met a payroll with your own money. Any small business person who has done this knows more about business than any educated person who ca usually only talk about it in abstract terms. It is quite different to work for a paycheck and get it each Friday versus laying in bed on Wed. wondering where you are going to get the money to make that check good.  I guess I forgot what got me onto this rant!!

[Ducati Scotty]

When you can't make ends meet sometimes you need to dump stock, even if it's at a loss, just to get some more cash flowing and hope you make it to the next season.  Or if you've gotten to the end of your rope then the bank or creditors liquidate things fast for the same reason, to get some cash out even if it's not all they're owed.  Either way, support from that dealer won't be there and you may not get a warranty.

The current economy isn't helping anybody in business, but from all the people I know in the biz it's never been easy to make money on motorcycles.  It's a business of very slim margins.

Scott

[Vince]

Interesting..... I had always assumed, I guess naively, that  there was some kind of consignment arrangement, backed up by a surety Bond or contract between the Dealer and Manufacturer/ Distributor etc?  So, the dealer has to lay out all of the Money, either his own or through a loan to purchase the Bikes first?  The Manufacturer or distributor sells the bikes to the dealers?
 It would seem that the dealers are taking on a large part or most of the risk?  The manufacturer sells the bikes to a distributor and takes a profit. The distributor sells the bikes to the dealer, and takes a profit, Then it is up to the dealer to retail the bikes at a profit?  Man, how do you do it when you have to take out loans and pay interest?  How many bikes can you sell !?
 Wouldn't  the manufacturer be in a better position to assume more of the risk? They would most likely be in a better position as far as capital goes, for things like marketing and etc.?  These maybe stupid questions, but..........

    Gashouse, Vehicle dealers are seldom a franchise in the manner of the McDonald's business model. We have a much greater degree of autonomy. The down side is that we assume more of the risk. Believe it or not, this also keeps down the retail cost. The more involved the parent company gets, the higher prices get. For instance: car dealers are more closely allied with the parent manufacturer. The manufacturer can enforce greater co-op advertising involvement. Meaning, the dealer pays more for advertising that "benefits" him, with little or no control over content or frequency.  This is passed on to the consumer in the form of a higher price. When a manufacturer offers 0 % financing, or $1,000 rebates, these costs are built into the price of the vehicle. That 8% financing you are not paying is actually built into the cost of the vehicle. The manufacturer cost is pumped up to cover the cost of the finance subsidy. Example: Buy a $10,000 car with a 10% loan for one year. You pay $$11,000. But wait! You got 0% financing! Well guess what, that car will be offered at $11,000, or you will not have any room to bargain down to $9,000. No matter what, you are paying the interest. It works the same way with rebates.  If the manufacturer were to put cars or bikes in the dealerships, prices would rise to cover that cost of doing business.
     Speaking as a dealer, and a crabby old fart, I would not want to relinquish that much control to a faceless corporate business model. Harley Davidson and Subway force their dealers to remodel every 3 to 5 years. If you don't have the money to remodel you lose the franchise.
     Most of the things people "KNOW" about running a store or dealership are illusions. Things are much more complex than a simple mark up from basic product cost. ALL the other costs of doing business are tacked on to that basic cost. Then the new adjusted cost is marked up to pay taxes and employees. And finally, what is left over HAHAHAHAHA! supports the dealer's family. All of this presupposes a retail price low enough that the product will actually sell in your market area. As you can see from that Craigslist ad, that is not always the case.
    

[Ducati Scotty]

Vince, I believe the finance for motos is also less tied to the manufacturers than with cars too, no?  Where Detroit has floorplanning and all kinds of other costs and incentives built into their plan (letting dealers make a bit more if they move more stock quickly) and helps dealers with all this, most moto dealers simply buy bikes at wholesale and handle all the financing themselves with their own bank.  Once again, less cost overall pushed to the consumer but more responsibility hoisted on the shoulders of the dealer to do all the financing themselves.  Am I correct?

Scott

[gashousegorilla]

    Gashouse, Vehicle dealers are seldom a franchise in the manner of the McDonald's business model. We have a much greater degree of autonomy. The down side is that we assume more of the risk. Believe it or not, this also keeps down the retail cost. The more involved the parent company gets, the higher prices get. For instance: car dealers are more closely allied with the parent manufacturer. The manufacturer can enforce greater co-op advertising involvement. Meaning, the dealer pays more for advertising that "benefits" him, with little or no control over content or frequency.  This is passed on to the consumer in the form of a higher price. When a manufacturer offers 0 % financing, or $1,000 rebates, these costs are built into the price of the vehicle. That 8% financing you are not paying is actually built into the cost of the vehicle. The manufacturer cost is pumped up to cover the cost of the finance subsidy. Example: Buy a $10,000 car with a 10% loan for one year. You pay $$11,000. But wait! You got 0% financing! Well guess what, that car will be offered at $11,000, or you will not have any room to bargain down to $9,000. No matter what, you are paying the interest. It works the same way with rebates.  If the manufacturer were to put cars or bikes in the dealerships, prices would rise to cover that cost of doing business.
     Speaking as a dealer, and a crabby old fart, I would not want to relinquish that much control to a faceless corporate business model. Harley Davidson and Subway force their dealers to remodel every 3 to 5 years. If you don't have the money to remodel you lose the franchise.
     Most of the things people "KNOW" about running a store or dealership are illusions. Things are much more complex than a simple mark up from basic product cost. ALL the other costs of doing business are tacked on to that basic cost. Then the new adjusted cost is marked up to pay taxes and employees. And finally, what is left over HAHAHAHAHA! supports the dealer's family. All of this presupposes a retail price low enough that the product will actually sell in your market area. As you can see from that Craigslist ad, that is not always the case.
    

  Oh!  I got ya Vince. Thanks for the insight.  

[Vince]

Vince, I believe the finance for motos is also less tied to the manufacturers than with cars too, no?  Where Detroit has floorplanning and all kinds of other costs and incentives built into their plan (letting dealers make a bit more if they move more stock quickly) and helps dealers with all this, most moto dealers simply buy bikes at wholesale and handle all the financing themselves with their own bank.  Once again, less cost overall pushed to the consumer but more responsibility hoisted on the shoulders of the dealer to do all the financing themselves.  Am I correct?

Scott

     Scott, it is not so simple there either. the manufacturer usually contracts with an outside money source. GMAC is not actually General Motors. Certainly they are affiliated, but the money comes from some kind of band/investment firm. The biggest  flooring company in the motorcycle industry is GE financial services. the manufacturer/importer has to pass GE's criteria for solvency. In the event GE has to repo a unit the manufacturer has to pay a penalty, starting at 10%, and buy the unit back including paying for shipping. If the bikes go to auction the manufacturer is liable for any short sale losses GE incurs.
     The dealer also has to pass GE's criteria for solvency. A rep comes around every month to check the inventory on the floor. Any units sold must be paid NOW.

[iowarider]

Kevin, Please don't get offended, but its late and I got a good laugh out of your first paragraph.

For the life of me I have never understood why anyone would buy a bike over the internet with no dealer support. Guess people get wives that way so I should not be surprised. Sure wished my X had come with dealer support!!

[Kevin Mahoney]

no offense taken at all. My first wife didn't even have a warranty. Turns out that even the lemon law couldn't help me.