[vwsamba]

Hi,
  I just got an 09 c5 with a bad sprag and starter. I fitted a new sprag and had the starter rebuilt locally and now the starter wants to turn the engine over backwards???. ie CW looking from chain/clutch side. The sprag just lets it freewheel though.  What i would like to know is what is the correct rotation for the actual starter motor looking at the starter gear from the chain side? I suspect it has been rewound backwards but the shop says no. Many thanks.

[Arizoni]

It sounds like you should take the starter motor back to whoever repaired it and very politely tell them, "THE G.D. MOTOR RUNS BACKWARDS!  FIX IT!  AT NO COST!!!!".

I'm sure if you present it to them in this gentlemanly manner they will cheerfully repair the damage they did.  

[vwsamba]

I already tried that and they assured me it can't be backwards hence my need to find out which way it should rotate. Thx

[Arizoni]

OK.

On page 208 of the repair manual it says the starter motor should run clockwise.  It does not mention which way one should be looking at the motor but because the gear is small and you cannot see it from the commentator end I would assume you would be looking at the gear from the gear end.

That would be from the left side of the motorcycle.

The drawings seem to indicate there are 4 gear centerlines.
The starter motor, a large compound idler gear, an simple idler gear and the sprag clutch gear on the crankshaft.

Looking from the left side of the motorcycle and following the geartrain from the crankshaft,  the crankshaft would be rotating counterclockwise.  That makes the idler gear run clockwise.  The compound idler gear would be running counterclockwise and the starter motor gear would be running clockwise.

If the starter motor is running clockwise it sounds like the sprag clutch may be installed backwards.

The manual mentions that a counterbored washer on the crankshaft next to the bearing should be mounted with the counterbore side towards the bearing.

It also talks about locating the sprag clutch with the "flange outward" but it doesn't say whether outward is with respect to the gear it fits inside or to the crankshaft.

The manual doesn't mention it but most sprag clutches have a directional arrow marked on them.  This arrow is usually pointed in the direction that the clutch locks up.

You may need to check to see if the clutch is installed correctly.
Because these things can be confusing I suggest that when the clutch and the gear it is in is installed, before you go further try turning the clutch gear counterclockwise.  It should lock up and drive the crankshaft in that direction.  Rotating the sprag clutch gear clockwise should produce no movement of the crankshaft while the gear "freewheels" easily.

[Blltrdr]

This pic may help.

[vwsamba]

Many thanks for the explanation and the pic. I have marked in yellow below which way my crank gear is being finally turned. I think the sprag is in the right way as it should freewheel this way. Tracing the gears back i would say my starter is turning CCW so is wrong..I just took the starter off to be sure and it is turning CCW looking at the gear. Is there a way to reverse the rotation or do i need a new starter? Thx all

[Arizoni]

I suspect the arrow is pointed in the wrong direction?

Where's Ace when you need him? LOL

[vwsamba]

which arrow? the one in yellow i just put on there. The one on the sprag i think is irrelevant as this is the rotation before it direct from the starter.

[Blltrdr]

I think that rotation looks correct. Isn't the rotation clockwise on a kick start model?

[vwsamba]

would'nt the kickstart be on the right side so CW there and CCW looking from the chain side as we are.

[Blltrdr]

would'nt the kickstart be on the right side so CW there and CCW looking from the chain side as we are.

Yes KS on RS but when kicking the foot starter backwards the primary chain would rotate CW. Correct?

[Blltrdr]

OK my last assumption was incorrect. I went out and cranked over my bike while looking at the primary chain. It rotates CCW  when kicking it over so you seem to be correct in your thought that the starter is wired incorrectly. Your starter should spin CW. I would take it back to the shop and have them fix it.

Sorry for the confusion vwsamba. I hope you get it worked out without having to spend any more $$$.

[Arizoni]

First I will mention we are talking about a 2009 C5.   I believe that would have the UCE power plant in it.

Now that I've gotten the oil cleaned off of my glasses I'll tell you folks what I did.

On the right hand side of the engine there is an inspection plug.  I removed this plug.

Looking down inside with a flashlight, I could see the alternator rotor which is bolted directly to the crankshaft.

Starting the engine while, with the aid of a flashlight looking down the inspection plug hole I could easily see the direction of rotation.
By the way, oil gets blown out of this hole while the engine is running.  

As I suspected, the crankshaft rotates in the same direction that the motorcycles  wheels rotate when riding down the road.  In other words, viewed from the left side of the motorcycle, the engine rotates counter-clockwise.

Because there was reference to the "chain side" and that side is different if we are talking about an AVL and a Ironbarrel or a UCE,  I will describe the rotation of the starter motor with respect to the motorcycles wheels as follows:

There are 4 gear center lines counting the crankshaft and the starter motor in the electric starter geartrain.
The crankshaft rotates in the same direction that the motorcycle wheels rotate and the starter motor should be rotating opposite the direction the wheels rotate when the motorcycle is being ridden down the road.

If the starter motor runs in this direction it is correct.

As I mentioned, I am describing a fuel injected UCE engine.  If the bike is an AVL or ironbarrel I don't know which way the starter motor will run but the engine will be rotating in the same direction as the wheels.

[Blltrdr]

OK so the motor rotates CCW which is exactly the same direction the kicker turns the primary and crank on my iron barrel. If you read the direction our friend with the problem states his starter turns in reference with the photo I submitted you will see there is a problem with the starter rotation. I think he has a valid point that the starter was wound incorrectly.

[Arizoni]

Just for giggles, attached is my modification of the picture.

I did screw up the clutch direction though.  It should read CCW

[vwsamba]

Thank you all so much for looking at your bikes posting pics and helping me out. That's just the clarification i needed. My starter was definitely wrong. I just took the starter back and they said to reverse it the magnets would have to be in the other way around so i suspect that they assembled the main body the wrong way around. The denso sticker was at the nose end but i do not recall if it was at the cap end before? i'll find out after the hols. I will be giving thanks for this forum! Happy thanksgiving all.

[vwsamba]

Just to wrap up the thread it was indeed the starter that had been rebuilt to run in the wrong rotation Even the shop could not tell why so i would not have been able to convince them without everyones help here so again many thanks and happy hols.