[Scott Skinner]

Hi. I'm new to motorcycles and just got a 2006 Bullet Electra. I love it and just passed my road test yesterday.

The bike had sat in a barn in Ohio for most of it's life with a total of 707 miles on it. I brought it to south Georgia and have put another 300 miles on it. The electric start wouldn't work until I disconnected the kickstand safety switch. Now it works only when it wants to. No difference if warmed up or cold. Push button, ammeter dips about 1/4 to 1/3, headlight dims slightly, but no click or attempt. If I wait a moment and try again, it works fine, sometimes. I fiddle with clutch, kill switch, ignition, and eventually it will cooperate. Weird.

If I jump the posts on the solenoid with a screwdriver, it starts immediatly.

The battery is good and not very old. Everstart 14L-A2 (the 2 is small)

I read the other posts about this sort of problem, but I don't know much about vehicle wiring. I do have a multimeter and know how to check ohms and DC, but if you say a place to check it, I will have to look it up in the service manual.

I am handy with tools and don't mind working on it, but I was hoping someone could suggest a place for me to start.

It was almost impossible to kick start when I first got it about a month ago, so I took the tank off, and drained a good amount of water-laden fuel, then cleaned the tank, fuel filter, drained the carb, replaced the spark plug, and she runs nice (I guess ). Still difficult to crank even after decompression kicking 10 or so times, then push kick until wheeze sound. It's very stiff. Me 210 lbs, and I can stand on it sometimes, but it seems to be loosening up.


Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. 

[The Garbone]

Get it to were you can stand on it, take your foot off the kicker, hit the decomp.  Kick.. It should have enough momentum that by the compression stroke it should push right through easy and start. 

The bike has an electric ignition, make sure you have enough juice on the battery to fire it when kicking,  those things can be more finicky than points. Also you might need the newer ignition box under the seat,  I think its a free upgrade if you have the old type, you can search the forum on that.

Remove and trash the ES setup.  It will only disapoint you. 

Is the bike stock or have things been changed on it?  If it is stock it might be jetted a bit to lean and that might affect the starting as well.    U might want to pull the carb and give it a good cleaning as the bike is 5 years old and probably has some crud build up in the passages and jets from sitting.

[barenekd]

The solenoid is shot. Replace it. look around and find one that's about the right size that you can get mounted in there. One of the guys got a lawnmower one that works fine. I don't know what kind it was though. Try one besides what Nfield offers. Their's has been notably unreliable.
Bare

[Scott Skinner]

Thanks Gary and Bareneked. I have a bad knee, so the elec start is very useful. It kick started 2nd try this morning, thanks to Gary's advice. It does have an aftermarket carb and air filter that leaves the old air filter comparment empty. Not sure of the make, but will look through a box of accessories that came with the bike. The choke is on the top and positioned inconveniently, but I don't mind. Will I need a gasket kit if I take the carb off?

The solenoids from the other thread referenced below look nothing like the one that is in there. Mine is a simple cylinder with connections on top. I was hoping to not have to rewire it, but this may be a long-range win b/c I can't find a replacement battery other than the Yausa (sp?) which is $95 before shipping. All others have posts reversed or terminal connector on the top instead of the side.

I appreciate the help. Great folks in here. 

elmagnifico
Scooter

Posts: 63



  Re: Electric Starter Problem
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2011, 06:41:23 PM » 

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thats funny,  I just replied on another post to try a solenoid from a outboard motor. try Arco PN SW097 or Mallory PN 9-15115.
 
  Logged 

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2003 bullet deluxe

[barenekd]

I have a Deka ETX15L AGM battery in mine. I got it online for $61. It's been a great battery, and you can drop the bike and let it lay on it's side for 24 hours without it leaking acid all over your bike!
Bare

[Superchuck]

Sounds like you're off to a good start of enfield ownership- welcome aboard.  I'll second that it's the solenoid that needs replacing.  Mine does too but I kick start usually so i've been rather lax to get it replaced.  My personal plan was to swing by one of those stores that sells landscape equipment, lawnmowers, atv's and chainsaws, and let them take a look at my solenoid and have them fit me out with something equivalent.  That's still my plan, just haven't had the time it seems.

I don't think you'll need a gasket kit for carb removal/replacement, but I'm also pretty new here so maybe one of the reliable regulars can clear that up for sure.

Good luck sir!

chuck

[Scott Skinner]

New Solenoid, Arco SW097, same problem.
New Battery, Yausa, same problem.

Put 60 amp spring button in-line between solenoid posts... it works. Used #8bguage wire. Will this work in the long term, or will it cause problems with the electrical system?

Thanks.

[barenekd]

8 ga wire won't cause any problems. The reason it isn't used on all the wiring is cost, weight and size.
The real problem comes from the ignition switch wiring. It's too small
Bare

[Superchuck]

This looks like something I want to do.  

I have some 14 gauge wire laying around the house.  Is this also fine to use or should I pick up something beefier?  If so, what's recommended? 

Secondly, what switch (button) did you use?  Do they have any specifications or impedance or anything?  I know very little about this stuff but plan to bug my electrical engineer friend for help.

Chuck

[Superchuck]

So I just called said electrical engineer friend.  He educated me into knowing that a push-button is simply a means to connect the circuit, and doesn't have any properties in itself.  Also said 14 gauge wire should be fine.  Reminded me to make sure my push button isn't metal or I'll electrocute myself every time I use it.  Not sure they even make metal buttons. 

His question for me is this:  What does the solenoid do exactly, and what does bypassing this component do (jumping the contacts). 

I told him that to the best of my knowledge the solenoid makes sure two things occur before it'll complete its circuit:  It makes sure you're in neutral (or clutch pulled) and it makes sure you're hitting the E/S button on your handlebar.  In my mind the only danger I can see of this is if you mistakenly try to start the bike when it's not in neutral.  This sounds bad to me, but you can just try and be careful and not hit that button without the clutch pulled.  Is this a true danger?  Am I correct in my solenoid definition?  What else does it do/ what else could go wrong.

Said EE friend also stated that solenoids usually regulate current, so that perhaps bypassing the solenoid would shoot a higher (voltage?) signal towards the next component in the circuit.  This may be no problem, as it may just give more juice to whatever components take care of starting the bike.  On the other hand, it might be slowly frying whatever component comes next in the E/S circuit chain.

Any thoughts either way?  I know there are a number of electrical dudes on here who can sort this all out.

Cheers, and thanks in advance!

Chuck

[Scott Skinner]

Those were some of my thoughts Chuck, but mine were more intangible.  

I went to numerous auto parts stores to look at options. This Dorman part 85984 was the only one near 60 amps. Made in China... no specs other than 60 amps, ~$10. All the others were about 15 amps. I figured a larger wire and switch was important since there is a lot of current required for starting. (not sure of the amperage) and wanted to make sure the switch would last a while.

http://www.amazon.com/Dorman-85984-Conduct-Sealed-Starter/dp/B000CO7IK4

[Philbomoog]

In reply to the question about what the solenoid does.

Its basically two circuits. A high current 12V (thick wires) from the battery to the starter motor (via the solenoid terminals), and a low current 12V (thin wires) switching circuit.

Shorting the terminals together will connect the battery positive to the starter motor, causing the motor to run.

The terminals can be shorted together directly using a screwdriver (causing sparks and possible damage) or indirectly, using the switching circuit.

If you have the diagram you can follow the switching circuit.
Battery positive - 15A fuse - ammeter - ignition key switch - kill switch - starter switch - solenoid. The return path to earth is via the neutral switch (or clutch switch).

So if the ignition is on, gears in neutral, kill switch off, operating the starter switch will put 12v onto the switching circuit, causing an electro magnet in the solenoid to operate, pulling a plunger which pushes a copper disc across the solenoid terminals, shorting the terminals together and connecting the starter motor to the battery. Hoorah!

The side stand switch inhibits the TCI so does not affect the starter.

The factory solenoid is pretty poor quality and there are lots of connections in the circuit that need to be made before the whole thing works. I fitted a solenoid with an in-built manual switch and never use the switching circuit. This bypasses the 'safety; features but I trust myself.

[barenekd]

Or, to get to the real basics, all the solenoid does is take juice via the small wires from the starter button circuit to an electromaganically operated plunger that is pulled into contact with the big wires completing the circuit to the starter. If you connect the two posts with the big wires on the solenoid with a screwdriver, you are bypassing the solenoid completely. This is usually a test of the solenoid to see if it's working. With the problems you seem to be having, you should be looking for big voltage drops at the small input wire to the solenoid. Somewhere in the circuit is a dam that is dropping the voltage to the point that your solenoid isn't getting enough voltage to operate it.  The big wires aren't the problem as they run directly from the battery to the solenoid and then the starter.
I'm going through the same problem with my headlight that is very dim. I'm suspecting the ignition switch wires are too small to carry the required load (amperage).
Bare

[Superchuck]

Cool, thanks for the great explanations:  So 1)  I, too, trust myself and would feel no reservation doing the button switch addition like Scott here.  2) I want to be able to diagnose this problem a little further, if just for education's sake. 

So, Bare,

How, with my multimeter, would I check for voltage drops at the small input wires?  What voltage am I looking for, and which wire, or both, should I test, and is it wire to ground?  Or one component to another?  Sorry for the novice questions, but it seems I'm quite the novice.

Thanks!

Chuck

[singhg5]

His question for me is this:  What does the solenoid do exactly, and what does bypassing this component do (jumping the contacts). 

Chuck :

Here is a solenoid function and testing video on my RE G5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV5wdGtP34o