Author Topic: Call Me Crazy... (Read 6322 times)

Chiefharlock · **on:** October 09, 2011, 04:27:08 am

....You can call me crazy if you like, but I think it would be totally rad if RE put out a 6 speed...

prof_stack · **Reply #1 on:** October 09, 2011, 06:02:13 am

Okay, you're crazy!

I think the 5-speed matches the UCE power very nicely.

Chiefharlock · **Reply #2 on:** October 09, 2011, 01:59:48 pm

I'm not saying it doesn't, but there is def room there for either a longer 5th gear or a 6th gear.

Chris-G5 · **Reply #3 on:** October 09, 2011, 05:08:04 pm

A sixth gear would be nice.

Desi Bike · **Reply #4 on:** October 09, 2011, 05:13:47 pm

Yes... We could always use access to another false neutral.. Haha.. Fifth gear is already a 1:1 ratio I think, we'd have to have an overdrive ratio for a sixth. The current ratios seem to fit well with the bikes and what they were built to do.

Maturin · **Reply #5 on:** October 09, 2011, 07:54:36 pm

Which weakness shall be cured by implementing a sixth, Br. Chiefharlock?

Arizoni · **Reply #6 on:** October 09, 2011, 10:32:20 pm

For highway use a overdrive 6th gear might be nice but if 6th gear was left at a 1:1 ratio and they reduced the change in ratios between 1st and 6th it would IMO be unnecessary.

Those close ratio gearboxes are nice for "peaky" engines which must be kept in a very narrow range of RPM but IMO the Royal Enfield with its high torque spread over a wide range of engine speeds really doesn't need it.

Chiefharlock · **Reply #7 on:** October 09, 2011, 11:01:23 pm

An over drive for the highway where you are doing over 55-60 would be great. Its just an observation I have made over the past couple of days of rolling through Missouri's stretches of Rte 66 and in and around Osage Beach.

barenekd · **Reply #8 on:** October 10, 2011, 01:21:19 am

Just put an 18 tooth sprocket on it. That would have the same effect.
Bare

Ice · **Reply #9 on:** October 10, 2011, 02:06:38 am

I would like a wide ratio transmission gear set designed to compliment the 18 or 19 tooth drive sprocket.

Such a set up would give the same final drive ratio in first as stock.
Second through fourth wold be spaced appropriately and top would be 1:1

FiRE Comms · **Reply #10 on:** October 10, 2011, 02:29:55 am

will the 18 tooth fit on the c5 w/ kicker?

Ice · **Reply #11 on:** October 10, 2011, 04:21:50 am

IIRC 18 tooth is standard on the C5.

In a nut shell a 19 T should roughly do for a C5 with its 18" wheels what a 18 T would do for a G5 with its 19" wheels.

CMW should have the sprockets in stock but they may not be listed on the stores website.

FiRE Comms · **Reply #12 on:** October 10, 2011, 04:14:29 pm

Ice, thanks for clearing that up for me...

TWinOKC · **Reply #13 on:** October 10, 2011, 07:48:22 pm

Considering the available power to these bikes. The 5 speed is just right. The older bikes have a 4 speed that worked pretty good for a long time. IMHO the C5 is set up just as it should be. I would not want to change anything (including the counter shaft sprocket). Maybe I am just a little lazy, the 6 speed would be too much shifting for me.

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #14 on:** October 10, 2011, 09:09:57 pm

+1. I get lost a lot when I have a 6 speed gearbox. What gear was I in again?

Scott

indyogb · **Reply #15 on:** October 10, 2011, 10:55:23 pm

I get lost no matter what. I'm always lookng for the 0th and highest+1 gear. I do it on my 6 speed Honda and my Enfield.

Desi Bike · **Reply #16 on:** October 11, 2011, 12:47:23 am

Indy, glad to see I'm not alone. I usually end up pulling the clutch in and flicking my toe up to find nothing at least a couple of times a week. Lol! Mostly I raise my toe up and can feel if there is another gear left in there.

GlennF · **Reply #17 on:** October 11, 2011, 01:27:41 am

Actually this Indian review talks abut a 6 speed Enfield but I am pretty sure its just a typo ...

http://bikes.indiandrives.com/royal-enfield-fury-500-upcoming-cruiser.html

If you really wanted to get finicky with final ratios on the 5 speeds you could fit an 18/19 tooth front and then also fit a rear drum with extra teeth (you can get more teeth just cannot go smaller) to fine tune it.

Lot of mucking about for minimal benefit though.

SimonT · **Reply #18 on:** October 11, 2011, 11:36:43 pm

totally agree.... after doing a few highway trips recently... man the bike revs sitting on 110 km/h....

Chiefharlock · **Reply #19 on:** October 12, 2011, 01:48:38 am

Yeah it does! On Monday I was pulling 70 to just over 75mph on I-44 trying to make it to a rally point with a couple of fellow riders. a longer 5th gear or a 6th gear would have been very nice...

If Royal Enfield would like to throw something together for testing, I would be more than happy to do well documented test riding with it out here on all these stretches of highway here in Missouri

I am a maintenance technician after all

TWinOKC · **Reply #20 on:** October 12, 2011, 02:10:05 am

Quote from: GlennF on October 11, 2011, 01:27:41 am

If you really wanted to get finicky with final ratios on the 5 speeds you could fit an 18/19 tooth front and then also fit a rear drum with extra teeth (you can get more teeth just cannot go smaller) to fine tune it.

Lot of mucking about for minimal benefit though.

+1

Call me stupid! I just don't understand. It doesn't matter if you have a 10 speed transmission or a 4 speed, the final drive is still 1:1, you need to change the sprockets to get more top speed, then you might loose some low end power. These are just 500cc bikes if you really want to go fast, get a 1,000cc rocket.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge than me will come along and straighten me out.

Terry

Chiefharlock · **Reply #21 on:** October 12, 2011, 08:25:52 pm

It's not so much about going super fast as it is just cruising at a slightly lower RPM when it is necessary that you be out on the highway.

Land Surveyor · **Reply #22 on:** October 17, 2011, 09:50:49 pm

Quote from: barenekd on October 10, 2011, 01:21:19 am

Just put an 18 tooth sprocket on it. That would have the same effect.
Bare

That's the simpler solution.

I would disagree that the engine characteristics won't work well with a 6th gear, though.

Harleys don't rev very high and have high torque/low HP engines and have had 6-speed overdrives for some time now.

PAndy · **Reply #23 on:** October 23, 2011, 08:49:20 pm

I think just the fact that you can be cruising on the highway and try to shift up when you are in 5th already shows that an overdrive 6th gear would be beneficial. The only time I feel like I don't have enough power on the highway is at high revs when the torque drops off. If there were a 6th gear or maybe stretch the 5 gears out and make 5th an overdrive gear, it would be easier to stay in that high torque band at lower revs.

I don't want to go much faster than 70-75, but I'd like to do it at lower revs.

Just my opinion. But I think an overdrive gear would make this bike incredible. I also do a lot of highway driving, off the highway the gearing is just where it should be.

FiRE Comms · **Reply #24 on:** October 23, 2011, 09:09:59 pm

Quote from: Pandy on October 23, 2011, 08:49:20 pm

I don't want to go much faster than 70-75, but I'd like to do it at lower revs.

+1

Chiefharlock · **Reply #25 on:** October 23, 2011, 10:42:06 pm

Exactly!

drbvac · **Reply #26 on:** October 23, 2011, 11:04:59 pm

+1 too!

digstuffup · **Reply #27 on:** October 24, 2011, 03:04:39 am

Quote from: Pandy on October 23, 2011, 08:49:20 pm

I don't want to go much faster than 70-75, but I'd like to do it at lower revs.

spot on.

GSS · **Reply #28 on:** October 24, 2011, 03:25:50 am

Has anyone ever put in a sprocket with 19 teeth in a C5? ScooterBob? Ice?

barenekd · **Reply #29 on:** October 24, 2011, 05:56:42 pm

The bike as geared will theoretically do 93 at 5500 rpm. Good luck on getting it there. Putting a one tooth larger sprocket on it would raise the theoretical top speed to 98. However in reality you may LOSE a bit of you 83 mph top speed doing that because you aren't as high up in the power band. the thing you are lacking with this bike, my friends, is horsepower. All the gearing changes in the world aren't going to make it goo much faster, actually if you geared down one tooth you may pick up a couple of MPH because you are working in a higher RPM/power range.
If you want to go faster on a Royal Enfield, your only choice is to hot rod the engine. Build a 535 and add cams and more carburetion, better exhaust, etc. The gearing changes ain't gonna cut it, guys.
Bare

Chiefharlock · **Reply #30 on:** October 24, 2011, 10:15:33 pm

I think you have missed the point. It's not higher top speed that we are worried about. It's lower high speed cruising revs. I'd rather not have my engine screaming bloody murder at me if I have to do 70 for a stretch.

GSS · **Reply #31 on:** October 25, 2011, 02:39:47 am

Quote from: Chiefharlock on October 24, 2011, 10:15:33 pm

I think you have missed the point. It's not higher top speed that we are worried about. It's lower high speed cruising revs. I'd rather not have my engine screaming bloody murder at me if I have to do 70 for a stretch.

Exactly my thoughts as well.

barenekd · **Reply #32 on:** October 26, 2011, 03:00:58 am

Quote

I think you have missed the point. It's not higher top speed that we are worried about. It's lower high speed cruising revs. I'd rather not have my engine screaming bloody murder at me if I have to do 70 for a stretch.

Ok. You have three choices, a bigger drive sprocket, A smaller rear sprocket, or a larger tire.
As was mentioned, the way these gearboxes are engineered, top gear will always be 1/1 regardless of how many lower gear ratios you have. It would take a total redesign to have overdrive gears in this box. It wouldn't even be this box. the reason for this design is that in top gear the gearbox isn't using any gears, so is more efficient.
Bare

GlennF · **Reply #33 on:** October 26, 2011, 03:38:51 am

Quote from: barenekd on October 26, 2011, 03:00:58 am

Ok. You have three choices, a bigger drive sprocket, A smaller rear sprocket, or a larger tire.
As was mentioned, the way these gearboxes are engineered, top gear will always be 1/1 regardless of how many lower gear ratios you have. It would take a total redesign to have overdrive gears in this box. It wouldn't even be this box. the reason for this design is that in top gear the gearbox isn't using any gears, so is more efficient.
Bare

well ... I suppose you COULD play around with the primary chain sprockets ... if you had an engineering shop at your disposal ...

Chiefharlock · **Reply #34 on:** October 26, 2011, 02:51:24 pm

you can get different primary drive sprockets they have 17, 18, 19, 20, 22 tooth variations available, but I'm not sure they fit the C5. Also, I see a lot of folks talking about putting the 18 tooth on the bike, but the C5 already comes with the 18 tooth.

So that begs the question: Who has put on the 19-22 tooth sprocket?

Ducati Scotty · **Reply #35 on:** October 26, 2011, 05:54:26 pm

I think Hitchcock's sells a 19T for the C5 and it just barely fits.

Scott

barenekd · **Reply #36 on:** October 26, 2011, 08:34:23 pm

There's a changeable rear sprocket set from Nfield Gear that has a 38T rear sprocket in the mix.
Bare