[gunnerasch]

Im starting the restoration of my 61 Indian/Royal Enfield ..pulled it down this weekend and getting ready to paint the frame...and was checking out the engine.

And was a bit curious about some things  I owned this bike since 1971..so it was 10 yrs old when I got it...here goes....If my bike is a Chief...why is the frame black, why is there a skid plate  under it..and why does it have unusual front motor mounting...IE a thin chrome box kinda thingy? And why are the fenders chrome, not the skulptured Indian boxy ones?

https://picasaweb.google.com/104042282269066802602/RoyalEnfieldRestoration

This is how I got it some 40 yrs ago...

https://picasaweb.google.com/104042282269066802602/IndianRoyalEnfield

It would appear to be more of an off road type setup??  Or did I buy an engine in the wrong frame?  Not that its going to stop me of course..but I was indeed wondering WTH?

Thanks!

Gunner

[Arizoni]

I know nothing more than what Gordon G. May's book "ROYAL  ENFIELD_ BY MILES THE BEST" says.

A  "Chief" is shown in the 1960 section and it had the deep full painted fenders with the Indian Head proudly placed on the front fender.  The painted rear fender was also very deep with a rearward pointing flair at the bottom.
It did not have the Royal Enfield headlight nacelle and the instruments were mounted in a housing above the stand alone headlight.

The caption under the picture says, "Royal Enfield Indian Chiefs continue to be sold throughout 1960.

In this same 1960 section there is shown a "USA specification Constellation which has the chrome mud guards (fenders) that your photos show.
This Constellation does have the Royal Enfield headlight nacelle with the two parking light eyes on it but the text says it has " high handlebars and provision for a rev counter."
The British version was said to have a Black enamel frame & forks.  The bodywork was polychromatic burgundy or peacock blue.

In the 1961 section there is a photo of a policeman sitting on a decked out Chief  with the caption, "Matchless Indian sill advertise Royal Enfield Chiefs and Police Chiefs for sale in the USA in 1961.
This motorcycle has the Indian head on the wide painted front fender.

In 1961 there was a Royal Enfield "Interceptor S Sports USA Export Model.  692cc twin cylinder OHV.  Bore and stroke 70 x 90 mm.  Lightweight high compression pistons, balanced crankshaft, racing cams, balanced clutch, heavy duty gearbox. 52 BHP.  Alternator electrics, Lucas K2F magneto ignition.  Provision for rev counter.  Armstrong rear dampers.  Quickly detachable headlight, raised handlebars, 3 1/4 gallon sports fuel tank.  Black enamel frame and forks.  Finished in Chinese red & chrome."
The toolbox/side cover does not look like the one in your photos.

Hopefully someone else who knows more than I do will help you.

[Arizoni]

I should have mentioned that the S Sports also had downward pointing exhaust pipes like your bike has and it had the same chrome fenders.

[Sandgroper]

Gunner,
The frame, engine, transmission, forks, yokes, front hub, swingarm, rear hub, toolbox and sundry smaller parts are all correct and original Chief, and the frame was black ex-factory.  The front engine plates are stock, except that somebody chromed them later. The skid plate, fenders, rims, tank, seat and other parts have been added or changed by a previous owner. 50 years down the track, it's hardly surprising some things have been removed or altered. Gives you a chance to do something individual with it, with the advantage that all the basics are there. Enjoy.

[barenekd]

The bike was probably an Indian Trailblazer, which was a modified Super Meteor. That one didn't have the casquette. The bike originally had 19" wheels. Those alloy rims on your bike are not original.
No "Indians" were built after 1959, but leftovers were sold in the US titled by the year they were sold.  When AMC took over Enfield in 1960, AMC dealers (AJS, Matchless, et al) were handling them.
Bare

[Sandgroper]

Bare,
The frame and engine numbers tell that this is a Chief, not a Trailblazer. As I stated previously, there are many major parts on this bike which only appeared on the Chief, and which are quite different to those on the Trailblazer. If Gunnar has owned the bike for the length of time he says, then some of the parts have been altered in the early years of it's life, is all. Lots of custom work going on back then!
FYI, the fork yokes/triple trees on the Chief are much wider than those on the Trailblazer to cater for the original fat 16" wheels. There was a special front hub and brakeplate to go with them, and as can be seen in his pics, all these special parts are still fitted to Gunnar's machine, even though the rims have been changed. The big dash panel you see on original-condition Chiefs simply bolts to the top tree, whereas the Trailblazer (and Woodsman) had a top tree, unique to those models, which held the big Stewart Warner speedo directly.

[barenekd]

You're right. Notably the "Chief" as a US only model.

Bare

[rotorwrench]

The frames were all black on RE Indians. The skid plates were optional. I have several NOS ones and they look just like that. The police bikes likely had them as standard equipment. Akront rims were popular back then for race bikes since they were strong and light weight aluminum but could take a lot of grief & heart ache. The front fender looks 62 thru 64 USA Interceptor to me. The back one is reminicent to the Apache model but is likely a home brewed affair. The megaphone exhausts were popular in the 60s. The front engine mounts weren't chromed by Royal Enfield in the 50s but I'm not sure about the 60s. They would have been the same basic part on the Interceptor models. Mabey chrome ones were aftermarket or someone had the chromed I don't know. The engine is pure D RE Chief right down to the upper engine mount, the distributor, and the ball ramp clutch. I can't see the frame number on the steering head but the frame looks 100% Chief to me. The RE Interceptor was very popular for desert riding in the early 60s and that bike looks like it was kind of imulating those bobbed down machines. Even the likes of Steve McQueen used to go desert riding back in the day.

AMC didn't buy Royal Enfield in 1959. They bought out John Brockhouse's interest in Indian Sale Corp. This gave them a whole new USA based sales platform to sell their own stuff. They didn't make a 750 cc bike in those days so they kept buying from RE through most of 1960 to fulfill agreements to supply police bikes that were likely under contract when they bought out Indian.

Kerby

[gunnerasch]

Thanks guys. Ive always wondered if this was a collection of parts from more than one RE and I think yall have confirmed it.

I bought a quart of Chinese Red from a paint store last week...and thats what Ill be doing the frame with. Ill bead blast the frame, then give it a few coats of red paint..and start putting it back together again.  I really need a speedo though. California really is picky about "equipment" so Ill need mirrors, speedo, a decent headlamp, tail and brake lights etc etc.

The rear fender btw..was much longer originally. It appears to have had 10-12' cut off on the end next to the swing arm axle and then rotated upwards to the current position. Bobber style. Im going to try to clean up the chrome, and run it as is, at least for a while until I can afford new chome or new fenders..at which point..doing more to the bike cosmetically might be proper.  Given that my front fork is 8" center to center..that rather limits what Bullet parts will fit, doesnt it?  I wish someone would make up an interchange list between the various Bullet parts sources and the old Indians/REs...so we could at least have a chance of getting the right stuff.
Any suggestions as to what to use for a headlamp?  I see the gizmos that clamp around the upper forks and use side mount head lamps, but I cant find a chrome 7-8" headlamp for anything less than nearly a $100.

Any help or advice is Always appreciated

Gunner

[ERC]

You can buy on Ebay a cheap fake Smiths speedo and cable that will hook to your speedo drive on the rear wheel and comes with the proper end to fit the fake Smiths speedo.  ERC

[gunnerasch]

So the imitation Smith speedos will operate properly on my bike? Now which one do I get..the 0-80, the 9-120..or the 9-150? <G>

Just pulled the heads and jugs a few moments ago..and there is ZIP wear, scratches, ridge or ANYTHING abnormal in them. Some charcol..but the valves are covered in mange as well.  I read the manual about "decarboning"...which I now understand.  When Im done polishing everything up (need gaskets!  Where?..make my own?)...should I put a good synthetic in it and not have to worry about carbon again? Mobile 1?  The oil came out black..and like heavy syrup. So I assume its also 40 yrs old. No crunchy stuff in the oil however <G>.  Ill post some photos later today, probably on my Picasa page. Ill advise when they are up.

I painted the frame Chinese Red..and will do the bits in gloss black..and the chrome will be polished up. Gonna need tires though. Anyone got a source for cheap but decent tires for a town bike?

Gunner

[rotorwrench]

The original speedo was 0 to 150 MPH but that was a Stewart Warner with a special 8:3 ratio drive. If you use a Smiths repo I'd go with a 0 to 120 MPH and the correct drive that is recommended. Unless your moving out of the USA I'D avoid the KPH types.

Motor & drive parts aren't stocked by too many people hear in the USA. Bob Michalak (Iota Products Co. 517-467-1127) in Onsted, Michigan still carries parts and maybe Beno Rodi but I've never contacted him. Hitchock's in the UK is the largest supplier that I'm aware of and the shipping is not all that bad.

I always loved the Royal Enfield oil recommendations 20* or less use SAE 20W, 20* to 50* use SAE 30, 50* to 90* use SAE 40, and 90* + use SAE 50. I would look for  one of the oils that still has the older levels of ZDDP but any oil is better than no oil. A good 20/50 racing oil would work in the heat of the summer. 10W30 or 10W40 would work in colder weather. I run aviation oil in the summer here in SA. 100W AeroShell works fine in this heat but It's kind of pricy these days. Harley dealers carry SAE 50 oil or at least they used to.

There aren't any "cheep" tires any more. Running wire spoke wheels can make changing tires a real challenge. Coker makes the old timy types they used to run back in 1960 and you can still buy Cheng Shin and there are other brands like Kenda, Duro, Shenko, and IRC that make lower cost tires. You might check your local bike shops. Sometimes they can get you some deals. The high end bike shops would be ones to avoid. They look at you funny when you ask for the cheep ones. I buy them from J&P Cycles and mount them myself. You'll have to have flaps & tubes with the wire spoke wheels. It ain't fun and you have to be careful about pinching your brand new tube. That's guaranteed to piss you off.

[gunnerasch]

Thanks for the heads up on the tires. I ran Cheng Shin tires on my BMW (Sacrelige!!) for 80,000 miles plus with no issues and the last set still look pretty good, though Ive not ridden it for at least 10 yrs. Getting Trudy up and running is on my list of things to do this winter (1973 R90/6). With luck Ill have this old girl up in the next couple weeks. ..(work truck engine blew 2 weeks ago..damnit..almost done rebuilding it) and in mid October..I should be taking delivery of this quaint little critter....

https://picasaweb.google.com/104042282269066802602/Trumpet

Thanks guys!

Gunner

[ERC]

Wow you're taking on some projects, makes me tired. Good luck with them  ERC

[gunnerasch]

Im only 57...and now single..so if I dont stay busy...Ill get fat and lazy and wont be much good for anything to anybody <G>.

The big problem...is coming up with the cash for the bits and pieces. This economy is not so good for manufacturing, when you own your own small business repairing machinery.
Which is another reason Im now single.  Married to a Spender for 37 yrs..who didnt understand that money isnt coming in like it used to.

Say..this thing doesnt have a choke on it per say...was it supposed to? I just got a set of cables from one of the india suppliers, throttle, brake, choke and decompressor..dont have the decompresson release of course. (anyone need one?) but there is not choke position in the top of the carby.  Chuckle..price was better than just the 2 cables alone here in the area..so I ordered the whole package.