Author Topic: Staring problem and air filter question  (Read 4603 times)

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jedaks

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on: June 27, 2011, 11:01:45 am
Righto, I got my new bike last night and it arrived with a flat battery. I charged it over night now the electrics work.

I have always confessed how new I am to motorcycles, RE in particular, so I am blaming myself here, not my equipment.

I have a hard time starting this bike. That is probably every newbie's problem. I was reading Snidal's manual and the advice on the forum. Here is what happened...

I used the decomp lever and rolled the engine a few times, then turned on the fuel, the choke, the ignition key, the kill switch to "on" and using the ammeter to tell when I was at TDC I pushed the kicker all the way through. Eventually, I got it started and it ran! Life! It exhausted blue smoke for a few seconds, which I took to be wet sumping but then it cleared. After a minute or so it started to sputter. I gave it some throttle but it died. I kicked it again and it came to life for about 10 seconds but died. That was it. No further attempts to resurrect it worked.
It was then dinner time and whilst I was eating it occurred to me that I had left the choke on! Maybe that was why it died after a minute?!  So I went back and tried it again, with and without choke. No joy. No life. HMMMMM..
So I checked the points with a screwdriver. Yep, there is spark. So I unscrewed the spark plug and had a look. The gap was pretty dirty, but no corrosion. The I looked at the other end of it. I noticed bare threads. HMMmm. I have never noticed a spark plug like that. They always have a little "cap" on them. 

Is that normal? Is that little cap supposed to come of and the spark plug wire fit over the top of the threaded tips? Obviously something worked because the bike did start that one time.

So, that was my first attempt at kick starting my 2004 Enfield. There is fuel, air, spark (maybe) and compression. What can I do?

The other discovery. Both tool boxes on this bike are occupied by other things. On the left side is that Pulse Air System thing, leaving not much room for any tools or other stuff. On the right side tool box is a round air filter, then it goes to a black box with a label saying "air filter wash with petrol every 2000 miles" then a tube into the carby.

So, why does that system work like that? Can I get rid of that round air filter and use the tool box? How to modify please? Would a K&N filter attached on the carby bypass all that stuff?

Thanks for reading and I could use direction on how to kick start my kick start only bike!

Regards,
Joe


ace.cafe

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Reply #1 on: June 27, 2011, 12:03:50 pm
The spark plug cap on the Bullet needs to be removed to fit with the OEM ignition HT wire boot. Not all spark plug connections are like that,  but this one is.
You will need to remove the little cap of the spark plug when you put a new one in.

Actually both of your toolboxes can be restored to usefulness if you like.
The pulse air system can be completely removed, and it's various connections plugged.
The air filter can be moved to the carb mouth, and it no longer would need to be in the tool box.
A lot of people do both of these things, and actually have the use of their toolboxes.
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mustangdave

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Reply #2 on: June 27, 2011, 01:12:53 pm
Is the spark plug "WET"...this seemed to be my issue a few weeks back...swapped out the plug and it fired right up.
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Chasfield

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Reply #3 on: June 27, 2011, 04:25:48 pm
Yeah, if it has oiled up (may be the engine has wet sumped from standing) it really won't want to go on that plug. My bike did this in busy traffic one evening after I had put in new piston rings and over filled the oil tank. I was surprised how reluctant to start it was and thought I had broken it good. I put in my spare plug and she fired up right away.

My Bullet also fuel fouls quite readily if I get too enthusiastic with the cold start lever. I only engage it for a priming kick on a stone cold engine.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 04:28:35 pm by Chasfield »
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jedaks

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Reply #4 on: June 27, 2011, 11:11:09 pm
Thank you for the help. I searched this forum and found a great tip by Kevin Mahoney about how to kick start. It pretty much worked. I got the bike to fire into life several times. It kept dying on me though which makes me think I have a fuel delivery problem and/or a gummy carburettor. I will remove it and give it a clean.

If I put a "cone" air filter directly on the mouth of the carb, won't that make it very free-flow and consequently run very lean? Would this require a re-jet of the carb or can I just put a cone filter on and not worry about it? I live and ride at sea-level.

This is a great place for help!



Chasfield

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Reply #5 on: June 28, 2011, 07:59:51 am
The stock carb is already set up very lean, so a free flow filter will push you towards the danger zone for overheating, particularly at large throttle openings.

The standard main jet on the 500 is a 110. Fitting a 115 to an otherwise unmodified machine makes for a much nicer ride.

I use a 125 main and 30 pilot with free flow silencer and a K&N filter element. This seems to be working quite well. Others have gone a bit richer still on the main jet for this configuration.

I have also lifted the carb needle to its highest position and fitted a richer slide - lean running at small throttle openings was instantly apparent when I swapped in the free flow silencer.
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RBHoge

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Reply #6 on: June 28, 2011, 09:02:13 am
Jedaks,
Check the little black rubber grommet on the top of your "enricher" (that plunger thingie hooked to the "Choke" lever (It ain't really a choke at all.)  ::) The booger has a habit of slipping up off its groove and preventing the enricher from ever shutting off >:(. The result is a rapidly fouling spark plug, (Black & wet) great starts in cold weather, but here in summer you really might prefer riding to changing spark plugs every fifty miles.  8) A tiny drop of super glue in the groove is the fix ;D.
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jedaks

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Reply #7 on: June 28, 2011, 10:55:05 am
Hooray...partial success and a small ride! Here is today's report:

Basically...I think I have a breathing problem and/or a fuel problem. I could also have a battery problem and maybe a spark plug problem. But one thing at a time.

I took the round air filter out of the right side tool box and also took off the air filter box.I noticed a pool of nasty dark oil in the bottom of the tool box! The round air filter was oily and stained brown so in the bin it went.

What would cause dirty oil to get into the air filter tool box?

So, with the air filters and filter box removed, I decided to start it. LIFE! HOORAY the bike started and didn't die when I turned the choke off! I was able to go for a short ride. I never took it out of 1st gear, I just idled around the farm. When I decided to see how strong the brakes were, I came to a gentle stop and the bike died. It wouldn't restart. I wheeled it back to the shed.

Then I made up an air filter by wrapping paper towels inside shade cloth and stuffed it in the filter box and put it back on the carby. Just a temporary measure to keep crap out of the carb (but it looks good and seems to work really well!)

I was able to get it started again, with the choke on but it kept dying. It was getting dark and that was it for today.

I wonder now if I have a dirty fuel or fuel line problem? Could the carburetor itself be the problem, even after the little ride (maybe 2 minutes)?

Also dear Royal Enfielders, does this bike (2004 kick start model) have the crankcase rebreather condenser box? I have looked for a box and don't see one. Could it be perhaps a little tin can?

One day I will know enough to offer answers instead of just asking questions. I have an appointment on Thursday to get the bike road worthy and then registered in Queensland. But a bike that won't start and stay started isn't road worthy, so I have to sort this stuff out first.

But I am enjoying it.  ;)


ace.cafe

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Reply #8 on: June 28, 2011, 12:14:48 pm
A kickstart-only bike may have the breather catch-can under the battery like the older bikes have.

You need to drain your breather catch can right away. The reason that it got oil into the air filter is because it overflowed, and went down the hose that goes to the air filter housing.
Most people re-route that hose to the chain or the tail end of the bike when they change their air filter to a K&N pod filter or other option. If you do change to a pod filter on the carb, put a small support bracket from the filter clamp to the frame of the bike, so that it is supported. If you don't, it will eventually cause the rubber manifold hose(between the carb and engine) to crack and fail.

When you fill your oil in the oil tank, only fill to the halfway mark on  the dipstick. This helps prevent overflow into the catch can.

Also, you might just drain your carb float bowl and let some fuel run out of the tank(via the petcock) too, just in case you may have had any water settle to the bottom and ended up in the carb. This is pretty common, and it will make the engine run poorly and die like that. That could be a possible cause of your issues.
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mikail gransee

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Reply #9 on: June 28, 2011, 02:46:19 pm
You ran the bike without an airfilter Not very good... :o Hope you did not suck some dirt or something into the engine...If it runs with the choke on and dies when you take choke off...sounds to me like the thing is getting starved for gas. How does it idle with the choke off? real slow? might want to turn the idle up some. If the bike sat for some time with out running..any one will tell you your carb is probably needs a "good cleanin" ;). Another fail point on the older bikes are those rubber boots going from the airbox to the carb to the engine. check them and see if they are cracked or kinda hard...and the clamps are tight. I would order new ones just because. anyway. ;)
ALSO..have you checked/changed your oil(s) yet?
Arrived with a flat battery?..is there a possability of a short that drained the battery?
....the mystery continues... ;D
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jedaks

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Reply #10 on: June 28, 2011, 10:40:10 pm
There are no signs of abuse on this bike. There is no appearant damage to anything. I think the bike is just suffering from a bit of neglect. It was garaged for many months with no use/attention. I am confident that simple things like cleaning some parts, and new spark plug and more knowledge on my part will bring it to reliable life.

I will remove the float bowl on the carb and look for crap. I may even strip and clean the carby just for the hell of it. I also intend to check for fuel flow fore and aft of the carby.

I am stuck at work most of the day and only have an hour of daylight left when I get home to work on the bike. I have to wait till my next day off to really get into it.


barenekd

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Reply #11 on: June 29, 2011, 12:31:38 am
Since you've started on the carb, go ahead and take it off. It sounds like the idle circuit is clogged, which is why it quits when you take the choke off. Take out the needles and jets. You'll need to blow out the idle circuits with compressed air, and if you have any carb cleaner let it soak in that for awhile.
If it's been sitting awhile the old gas will gel up in the passages and is a bit of a pain to get out.
Make sure you clean out the rest of the fuel system and tank while you're at it. The old gas needs to be removed everywhere.
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chonpuun

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Reply #12 on: July 01, 2011, 07:43:31 pm
jedaks  where in queensland are you, i live in brisbane  once you get a few problems sorted out you will have a good bike , i had a few problems when i bought my 05 bullet  i got so frustrated i sold it  and bought a 07 bonny which i can not fault although it is sterile  compared with the bullet ,that i had the good luck to buy back  back   these bikes grow on you and become part of your life . rick