[Blltrdr]

i must be naive or something...i'm no\t trying to get into a pissing contest..but what the hell is going on? why have a immigration office at a embassy if everyone is going to bypass it and just get on a rubber raft and drift over the border or sneak through canada..u mean to tell me that the locals just wanted to get drunk and stoned  and call it a day after they were trained to do a job...gimme me a break...man r we on a bad path...the future is looking bleak......i've been a boy scout to long, maybe i got to wake up....on the other hand, i rather see life as i would like it to be...

I've been to enough third world countries to understand a persons desire to come here. Jesus man these people die on trails in the desert and in the back of cargo vans just to set foot here. This equation is grade school level. Get on your high horse and have a look see. Real people, real problems, one solution!

[GreenMachine]

billtrdr: I'm didn't even think u did...actually alot of people up here in northern VA. made a fortune on illegals during the construction heydays..no one wants to talk about it but that bubble bursted and alot of regular people have seen their equity blow up in their faces due to the greed of certain individuals as well as the banks that gave out ridiculous loans to anyone who had a job doing whatever... i think u are correct, alot of people think the same thing as if they can't control the border, so be it, everyone has a right to live their lives the best they can and if that means crossing a border for a better life..so be it...i i understand the idea..its not like i haven't seen it in every 3rd world country I visited over 30 years of travel for work...we're just conversing here and sharing thoughts...I've come to the conclusion that the politicians are no longer interested in my vote or interest..I t wasn't my intention to burn any bridges and get you worked up...well maybe a little but its not like either of us are any worst for it.....glad to c new Orleans is back to some kind of resemblance...apparently we have somethings in common, and that;s not a bad thing. .cheers

[GreenMachine]

i think u meant get off you high enfield and have a lookie..guess what , i have ..but i'm still not convinced that the problem is not easily fixed..if it was, we wouldn;t be having these conversations. anyway, u have a great weekend and it will be interesting to see where all his crap is headed...cheers.

[Blltrdr]

How many Enfield's are being repaired by talented illegal mechanics? We'll probably never know but my guess is there probably are a few. Remember these guys are Americans, North Americans just like us. We should show compassion to the honest hard working God fearing individuals that drink the same Kool aid as we all do.

Don't worry GreenMachine blood pressure is normal, hands are steady. Venting is a good way to deal with every day stress from problems associated with our ever shrinking world.

[GreenMachine]

 

[MDLNB]

Sorry but Illegal means CRIMINAL.  We don't need them and would not lose anything if we did like Eisenhower and shipped them all back. I have worked embassies and have seen how long it takes to get permission to immigrate to our country. A study was done about a year or so ago regarding how much it would cost us if we got rid of the illegals and it only came out to costing each tax payer an extra $8 per year.  I'll gladly give up 8 bucks. My sister works at the health dept and told me that over 90% of their patients are illegals. I have relatives that came here legally and applied for citizenship and waited the required time.

If you are going to let them wander on in here then I guess you won't mind when someone breaks into your home and stays there when you are on vacation. Then when you return, tell you that you can't evict them because they took good care of your home while you were gone. Then if they have a baby, you have to care for it because it was born in your home. You know what I mean.  Illegal means CRIMINAL, period.   Sorry, but I care more for my fellow Americans and the LEGAL immigrants than a bunch of folks that believe America owes them milk and honey if they can just force their way into our great nation.  Far as I am concerned, we should bring our military members home and put them on the border. Give them plenty of target practice. No other country is going to allow this foolishness.

[r80rt]

Well said!

[Blltrdr]

If you read my post I used the words honest, hard working and God fearing. I don't want the riffraff here, we already have enough citizens that fall into that category. Our gov doesn't keep them out then provides services for them; our states issue drivers licenses and banks let them start accounts. Hey if you got a clear path to follow, take it. The issue comes down to boarder security. But their mighty tax dollar trumps all. Until the government makes a concerted effort to secure our border from all illegal entry you & I will have to live with the consequences an unsecured border poses.

[GreenMachine]

its a real hot button issue...everyone has a story and ideas....don't assume because u are a American that if u live overseas that you have rights or can do what u pleased.. you can't but ocean front property in Mexico unless you married to a Mexican national and its in her name....some little things and some bigger things...u don't just wander over and say hi, here i am...they want to know who u are, what u want, how much money are u bring into the country, how long are you staying, where are you staying, what are your intentions.....should i go on.....bottom line is they are asking the questions and you doing the answering///their usually someone with a gun standing in the same room////

[MDLNB]

Exactly, Green.

I love it when folks say, "what I mean is hard working Illegals" like that is supposed to make a difference in the fact that they are are invaders and they are sending their money BACK to their home country. They have false Social Security documentation, which would put me in jail if I was to do it. They change their name every time they go for medical treatment (FREE) and they wave their Mexican flags and protest in our streets. Sorry if I don't sympathize with them. I have to obey American laws, so I don't feel sorry for those that believe they should have special privileges because they weren't born here. If they want what we have, they have two choices. They can come here legally by standing in line with other decent folk, OR they can get together and make their country like ours. Pretty simple. It all has to do with motivation and integrity.

[GreenMachine]

alot of people look the other way, some people say what's your problem, some say what's the big deal, they here now, some say they always been here, yadda yadda yadda,, many exploit and take advantage for their personal gain...many people some unwittingly hired them for 10 bucks a hour to do their yard and concrete work (by the way they are very good at concrete and anything related to tile)..apparently they have  re= built New Orleans and are probably as we speak working on the latest tornado damage down south...I'm not disputing that they are hard working and a creative people( i lived in mexico for 2 years) but as Billtrdr stated: Our gov doesn't keep them out then provides services for them; our states issue drivers licenses and banks let them start accounts..So really are we just spouting the obvious but really no ones cares anymore? Can we really do anything about it as the political will has been sucked away and manipulated by  the media and politicans looking for votes to make us irrelevant as much as possible. They still want our money but they want us to shut up..  What does the Americans who are Mexican decedents think of all of this?  do they support full amnesty and voting rights for the illegal Mexican citizen and lets not forget our friends further south that use mexico as a conduit to the north? Are they part of the total equation? Who's gonna pick the harvest to feed us  lazy inept cholesterol laden Americans who all they care about is american idol and the fact that their toy is missing from their happy meal.  Another catch 22,  it's just  like our relationship wth pakistan and other places...Its the same old politics of shell games and who'se running the show..Its like  getting pushed in the corner of a box and  you have to payoff as many as possible to get out ... you know the drill..now get moving..the lid is closing..

[Kevin Mahoney]

I do not want to wade into the "no upside" argument about illegal immigration so I won't but.........
I am in general a "law and order" kind of person. I do think the Federal and State governments grossly overreach in many areas (I live in MN which makes CA look like a right wing state), most of them regarding personal freedoms and particularly the freedom to be stupid and not be protected from yourself.

I find it easy to get worked up about illegal immigration as the illegal part is pretty black and white. However I have been spending a lot of time in CA over the last couple of years specifically in  Inglewood/Lennox which are next to LAX. I have come to know as friends a lot of people in the illegal community there.I have spent time in their homes gone to their parties, churches and generally become involved in their lives.  (In that area I would say more than 75% of the people are illegals).

I have seen most of them use the emergency room as a doctors office (for free to them, not so much for taxpayers.....oh wait they pay taxes too.). I see some that do not want to learn English or seemingly to assimilate. I have also been lectured about patriotism toward the US (suggesting that by being so critical of the govt. I should be careful because it is the best place you can live). It is a big paradox for which there are NO black and white answers.

I find that most would love to assimilate but are held back by the fear or difficulty of learning English. Knowing English is seen as the path to success in that community. I also see their kids who are fluent in English who will be fully assimilated.

I see very hard working people who are doing everything they can to raise law abiding kids and who want to be productive. None of them complain about hard work. They just see it as a way forward for them and their children (sound familiar). There is a feeling among some that the illegal tag while very real is encouraged by the US govt. since it is so easy to get here (relatively speaking, although walking for several days through the dessert is not easy or without risk) and to stay here.

Why else would so many services and jobs be available if they weren't welcome? I agree that legal is legal and that illegal is illegal but the answers (if there are any) are not as clear or as easy as it would seem on the surface. Deporting them all may sound like an answer but just exactly how would you do that? It is wrong to say that they don't pay taxes because the vast majority of them do. If a guy can get to be president of the US without showing a birth certificate, how tough do you think it is to get a real Drivers license, Social Security card etc? Trust me it is easy. (No I am not a birther, but it just seemed like a good example).

In short I am not really on any one side of this argument, but what I am saying is that from a distance the answers seem easy. When you really confront the reality of illegal immigration it is not so simple nor is it black and white.

[MDLNB]

What some folks do NOT see is that if you legalize or give amnesty to these folks, you suddenly lose the advantage of them filling those so-called jobs that no one else would take. They suddenly realize that they can have those high priced union jobs and that they no longer have to work as migrant workers. I have heard the same old thing for many years about how much they do for us by taking those jobs that no else would take. Well guess what, once they are legal, they ain't gonna take them anymore. Besides, isn't it about time that parents start being parents and say "NO" to their teenagers? Make those teenagers earn their way by taking those jobs that illegals hold down, like working the fields and flipping hamburgers. Quit giving the kids those nice cars and motorbikes. Let them work for them.

I believe in immigration. Of course I do. My wife's whole family are nationalized citizens. My family came over from Europe in the late 1900's. Most of my friends are of ethnicity. I believe in law and order also. I believe that in order for an immigrant to become an American or to be privileged to work in my country they should respect it and our laws. Illegals do not respect our country because they are breaking the law every day, regardless of how "nice and good" they are.

The only way we are going to stop this is to start enforcing the laws. If a business owner knowingly hires them, then he should be fined the first time and incarcerated for repeated offenses. If they can't find a job illegally, then they will be less inclined to sneak into our country. America welcomes new blood. We just don't have the resources for invaders.

A few decades ago, when I was a cop, I would have told you that most of the criminals I arrested were known as good people in their community. They still broke the law and someone still suffered for it.

[GreenMachine]

so why is California in such bad debt? why are they bitching about their fiscal disorder? why are they having to readjust state workers and local govt benefits ? why is it i hear the same stories at the hospitals here in VA  which is the only English they know is the word "free"...is the state of calif going to figure out their budget problems or are they gonna ask the feds to bail them out and does that mean the rest of us have to pay for their lack of enforcement or look the other way approach to the problem..if what you say is accurate, are we at least sealing the border now so no more can walk through or are we to expect to see the remaining millions of  unwanted that the Mexican state no longer wants or supports...big mistake on the free wheeling amnesty idea,,,talk about a can of worms...why even have a immigration office in Mexico city? what a joke..why even have a immigration policy in the united states ..or is this wink wink let then in but we didn't see, only appliy to our friends south of the border...what about the Haitians, west Africans and Libyans..why should they be deported if they land here illegally ..they are  hard workers too...why not keep just the hard workers and deport  all the lazy including the local Americans ....u get to stay as long as u r working hard., everyday, seven day a week till you hit 75 or drop dead...there u go, we just figured it out and we might even fix the deficit and national debt in 50 years with the new America..

[baird4444]

Global humanitarian reasons for current U.S. immigration are tested in this updated version of Roy Beck's colorful presentation of data from the World Bank and U.S. Census Bureau. The 1996 version has been one of the most viewed policy presentations on the internet.

http://www.numbersusa.com/content/resources/video/educational/immigration-world-poverty-and-gumballs-updated-2010.html