[stipa]

Anyone ever seen wear on the spindle like this? 

Split the cases to change some bearings;  found this and looks not too healthy. 
This is the second spindle in one of these (iron jug) engines that I've seen with wear like this. 

thanks, Steve

[GreenMachine]

this oil spindle thing has caught my interest...no i haven't but i like to see where this going..

[ace.cafe]

I think that's usually from the spindle having alot of resistance in turning.

If the oil pumps move freely, then it's a matter of riding too hard before the oil warms up enough.
When the oil is cold, it's pretty stiff and doesn't want to flow. So it presents alot of resistance to the pump drive, and can wear stuff out.

If you haven't tried the later model oil pump springs, you might try them. They are softer than the older ones, and seem to work better.
Anyway, that spindle is toast. You need a new one and a new worm gear to go with it.

[stipa]

Well, yeah, the spindle wouldn't be offering any resistance.  I've always thought I've been pretty religious about warming up, usually 10 to 15 minutes of idling,  no burnouts out the driveway and such. 
I purchased another engine (2005) with only a few hundred hours on it;  spindle was in the same shape.  Also, the quill had sheared, ran downstream and blocked the oil to the big end, then the crankpin had sheared.  (The whole catastrophe). 
Anyway, something to inspect a bit more regularly I think.
Does CMW have the softer springs?

Already had a new spindle and worm gear to go on the other engine.

Steve 

[stipa]

Also,,,
just pulled the spindle out of the housing for a closer examination.  41% if the teeth (splines?), are toast, 5 teeth out of 12.  Perhaps the spindle stopped momentarily, or was rotating with a tight spot, where the shaft would drag, allowing the worm to do its 'mill work'? 

A couple pics of the oil pump spindle; different sides. 

[ace.cafe]

Question;
When those bad teeth are positioned to be in engagement with the worm gear, what are the locations of the drive pins on the ends of the spindle?

Knowing that will tell us what part of the pump cycle was causing the binding.

[cyrusb]

In addition to whats been said above I'd like to add that maybe poor heat treating may be the cause. That,s a pretty robust gearset and the speed is rather low(12 to 1). Add to that, the fact that they run under oil. So what I'm saying is there should be some other damage(scoring etc.) at the load source to damage those gears in that manner. If not, I would be concerned with the temper of the spindle itself. How worn was the worm? I also would think there would be a lot of wear on the pump pins etc. if it was an oil pressure issue.

[RGT]

Do the pumps show any signs of having ingested solids?

[The Garbone]

When I pulled apart the junk motor I sent off to Ace to get a crank rebuild the spindle looked much like that all the way around.  In addition the worm gear was stripped and the filter and passages were full of aluminum shavings.    One could guess why the big end was shot and bits falling out the crank..    

[cyrusb]

When I pulled apart the junk motor I sent off to Ace to get a crank rebuild the spindle looked much like that all the way around.  In addition the worm gear was stripped and the filter and passages were full of aluminum shavings.    One could guess why the big end was shot and bits falling out the crank..    

I hear that,but it makes me wonder which happened first? The big end jamming up the pump with chips,or the pump failing and killing the big end. Running a file over the worm and spindle might give you an idea of the hardness of both.

[stipa]

Another bit of (collateral?) damage I noted upon closer inspection (gosh this stuff is tiny), is wear sustained to the return oil pump on the driven  (backside) of the pump,  looking to me like the spindle "flange" on that side contacted the pump block and caused the grooving that is indicated in the pics.
I think the pump spindle had a little axial play in it, and probably more so after the damage to the teeth, or splines, (whatever). 
The spindle drive pins showed no damage, although they mic'ed out about half a thou. less than the new spindle I have. 
Also the spindle bearing surfaces were all .001 less than the new, (OEM) spindle I have to replace it with. 
The worm drive didn't seem all that bad, however, I am back on the ship for another few days, and left that part at home. 

I don't know;  seems like if the spindle moved axially into the return pump block, it would jam, or at least drag on the whole affair in there, thus causing both the pumps to slow down, and also initiate the worm gear damage to the spindle splines. 
If the splines were damaged to the point where the spindle might have been 'skipping' wouldn't it provide intermittent (as in, lousy), oil flow to both the big end and the rockers?

Yeah, what came first, the chicken or the egg?

Steve J.

[upanther]

I realize that this is nearly a month since the post, but I'll throw in my 2 cent's worth. I bought a Bullet from a guy who couldn't ride anymore (inner ear/balance issues) . . . but loved to tinker. The bike only had 250 miles on it, but he had already performed the post-break-in maintenance . . . twice. He also had taken the timing cover off (for some reason). There are a ton of other things he did that I won't go into, but  I'm 99% sure that when he put the timing cover back on he pushed the shaft cogs against the worm gear (and tightened the timing cover screws down tight) without turning the engine. This would have sheared off all of the gear cogs on one side (which is exactly what it looked like when I took it apart - after it was starving for oil).

I have found that you need to turn the engine over by hand while pushing the cover in. The mechanical advantage of the worm drive in that direction is WAY too great for the shaft to turn itself as you push it on.

[stipa]

That is a good point upanther, and may have been what happened in that engine. 
But I think that to try and force the shaft teeth into the worm gear the result more than likely would be perhaps bent teeth and/orworm drive and a locked up crank, probably to the point where it would be impossible to even kick, never mind press the electric.

I am speculating that in my case, there was either some initial misalignment during assembly (I bought the bike new), or the t.s. roller bearing inner race wore enough prematurely (maybe not prematurely), thus causing the stub shaft to run out of true enough to erode both the pump spindle teeth and the worm gear, (which actually has a very gnarly sharp edge on it). 

To my discredit, I hadn't opened up the timing case in probably a year, had been meaning to, but crap sometimes gets away from you.  Live and learn.

To the bikes credit, it ran fine all last summer, and I'll say that a few times I may have really brutalized the machine;  we're talking far more than the Sunday morning ride into the countryside. 

Anyway, the crank is rebearinged and trued up to .002;  cases are back together, timing side is on.  Next rotation off this slab I plan to put the top end back together and should be making some noise and distance with the 'lil bugger in a week or two.

[stipa]

Prepping for new races;  chillin' with the stew meat and rhubarb.

[cyrusb]

Upanther, I've had my timing cover off and had no trouble reinstalling it. My pumpshaft turns freely and rolls right in without turning the motor. It seems to me that its the fact that it doesn't turn freely that may be the problem. I can roll my pumpshaft with my thumb. If it's not pumping any oil, why should it turn hard?