Author Topic: Triumph runs on E 85  (Read 1251 times)

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1 Thump

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on: April 11, 2011, 06:35:09 pm
http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Page?template=MCconversion. The UCE bikes are fuel injected.  Hmmm?


ace.cafe

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Reply #1 on: April 11, 2011, 06:51:01 pm
There is absolutely no performance advantage to doing that change unless you raise the compression to take advantage of the octane rating of the E85.

All they will get with that conversion is poor fuel economy, because the ethanol requires a much richer mixture, and thus uses much more fuel per mile.

It is required to raise compression to get any benefit out of that fuel.
A simple injector conversion won't do anything except use more fuel.

Unless there is a desire to run your bike on corn instead of gas, and that's another subject.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 06:53:19 pm by ace.cafe »


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Reply #2 on: April 11, 2011, 07:22:59 pm
That'd make a fireball with an even higher compression a good candidate. I am sure someone has thought about this already .  ;)
« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 07:27:25 pm by 1 Thump »


Fox

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Reply #3 on: April 12, 2011, 06:35:44 pm
Quote
Changing the world to ethanol one vehicle at a time

Now why the holy hell would we want to do that?
2000 KLR650 - Clack Clack the Sorry Green Bastard
2009 Royal Enfield G5 Deluxe


mrunderhill1975a

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Reply #4 on: April 12, 2011, 10:53:07 pm
Why in the holy hell would a person want to do that?..........................the only reason I can think of would be if I owned a cornfield and wanted to get top dollar for the corn.  I would advertise how great my bike runs on the stuff.  I can hear the pitch now...."lubricates the upper cyllinder, increases gas mileage by 10 ...no...20%, cleans the atmosphere, more power, chicks dig it".


Rosetap

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Reply #5 on: April 13, 2011, 01:22:26 am
I've heard stories that the original 350 bullet can, with little to no modification, run on 50/50 gas/kerosene, gas/diesel, or gas/ethanol.  Is there or could there be any truth to this for, say, emergencies?


redcat

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Reply #6 on: April 13, 2011, 06:05:22 am
I've heard the same thing but never tried it.


 Being in the marine biz I can tell you that Gas with 10% E in it has had a terrible affect on Marine engines that are stored over the Winter, I am sure this is no surprise to any one here. Ethanol is a bad idea that needs to go away
Watch out for the guy behind the guy in front of you


ace.cafe

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Reply #7 on: April 13, 2011, 07:39:12 am
Regarding the questions, yes any engine can be modified to use ethanol, and you just re-jet the carb to much richer, so that you can use that fuel.
However, as I previously stated, there is no real benefit achieved by that, unless you raise the compression ratio to take advantage of the higher octane rating of the ethanol.
If you do that, you'll gain the benefits of the extra compression and torque that comes with it, because the ethanol fuel has higher octane and can sustain the added compression. That's where the extra power would come from.

As far as diesel fuel or kerosene being added, I'm not too sure about that. I never tried it, nor do I know anyone who has tried that.

And yes, definitely the ethanol has a propensity to absorb water, so it can cause quite aggressive corrosion in the fuel system.
Special internal fuel tank coatings are suggested, and also corrosion resistant fuel lines and fuel system parts.
Many racers will run a small amount of gasoline thru the engine at idle speed until they are sure no ethanol is left in the system, before they store the bike for the next race. This removes any ethanol from the fuel system during the storage time, so that it helps eliminate corrosion during storage.
Also, Redline Racing makes a fuel additive for ethanol which helps to reduce corrosion issues and adds a top cylinder lubricant because the ethanol runs pretty "dry" in terms of upper cylinder lubrication.
These same things apply to methanol too..

Racers and hot-rodders like to use E85 in racing classes that require "pump gas" because it is available at the pump, and it gives higher octane than any other available pump fuel. So, it technically meets the "pump fuel" requirement, but allows them to run higher compression.

Ethanol does require some additional care and maintenance by the owner, but if the compression is increased and gives more power, and the owner is satisfied with the power increase vs the added maintenance, it can be a viable alternative.

However, because it does run about 30% richer because of its fuel characteristics which need more fuel  to make best power, you run out of fuel about 30% faster than you would with gasoline. So, you can't go as far on a tank of fuel.
The E85 is cheaper per gallon, but you have to look at the fact that you will use 30% more fuel to go the same distance. If the premium gasoline is more than 30% higher priced than the  E85 is, then E85 is a good deal. If the premium gasoline is not much more expensive than the E85, then the gasoline is a better deal for economy.

Regarding the political aspects of the argument, ethanol isn't a very viable option to replace gasoline, as long as it is made from corn. That eats into the food supply, and the land that is used to grow it, which I don't think is a very good idea. And there's not enough land to grow enough corn to replace gasoline as a fuel for everybody anyway.
There are other biomass crops that could be alot better for ethanol production than corn is. Hemp is one of them, but it's illegal.

So, there are pros and cons about it as fuel.
The one good thing that I see about it is that there is finally a high-octane product at the fuel pumps again, and racers love it.
They can have an "alcohol burning" hot rod on the street now which was previously a track-only option. As long as they are willing to do the additional fuel system maintenance, and can put up with the poor fuel economy.

Currently, there are very few E85 gas stations located around the country. I think they might be more prevalent in California, but there's only one of them in my whole state. Even in populated states like NJ, there are only a few E85 stations. So, this makes is a potential problem if you have your engine set up to run E85, and you run low on fuel, and have no available E85 station where you are when you run out of E85 in your tank. If that happens, and you have a high compression engine that NEEDS the E85, you can't use gasoline to get you home.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 07:43:00 am by ace.cafe »


GreenMachine

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Reply #8 on: April 13, 2011, 10:15:14 am
i can tell ya it oxidizes the internals of my mower carb and that's after i had it rebuilt.the first time...the second time I brought a new carb as the rebuild kit was only 40 bucks less than the new carb (isn't that crazy) ...anyway it my fault for not running fuel treatment or running out the fuel prior to winter storage...if u leave fuel in long enough its going to screw up these pot metal carbs period..I just got lazy with the mower and been serious witht he bikes but I've seen first hand what ethanol damage looks like...
Oh Magoo you done it again


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Reply #9 on: April 13, 2011, 10:20:17 am
Alcohol is hydrophilic. Its absorbs water, just like gas, but more. Its the water that corrodes. Its more of a problem with methanol than ethanol. Marvel mystery oil lubes the upper end just fine, and do not forget to drain fuel before storage, and run gas like Tom suggested. People are also known to let it run dry then squirt wd40 thru the air filter just before it does, so that it lines the internals during storage.