[boggy]

Last summer I posted about a problem I was having.  I mis-diagnosed it a bit but was corrected by anther forum member.

So the problem is that in any gear, it seems like I hit a rev limit and the engine flubs out.  It's about halfway to 3/4 of the way through the rpm's,  If I get their gently, I hit the limit and it starts to go.  I can feel the engine firing as it lurches forward, then I can feel it kick out as it slows a bit, rinse, repeat.  If I just crank the throttle, it just flubs.  It does not stall since as soon as it gets back to halfway through the rpm's, I get my power back.  The speed is not an issue as this can happen in any gear.

SO.  I had a LONG list of electrical issues to sort through from forum members.  I THOUGHT I had fixed it with a bad connection at the ammeter.  Not the case.  Took the bike out from winter storage, gave the electrics a once over, and the problem persists.

Before I get long winded, I'm wondering if the problem could be in the carburetor.  I have a 30mm flat-slide with a wide open exhaust.  The bike ran rich when I purchased it so I leaned it out a bit with the air screw.  Could the problem be any of the following:

-Too much fuel getting in?
-Too much air getting in?
-Float bowl overfilled?

I have not tried draining the float. I have no prior carb experience.  I'm wondering if I just need to fiddle with the air screw a bit.  Or adjust the float.

Let me know if anyone things this COULD or COULD NOT be the culprit.  My bike is still not under my roof but I'll be working on it this weekend.  I'd just like to know if any of what I'm guessing could be an area to investigate.

As always, thanks in advance for any help you can give me.
Boggy

Here's a link to my carb's schematic.
http://scootrs.com/images/pwk-type.png

[RGT]

when you adjust the air screw you are adjusting the mixture at idle only, so if it starts and idles good leave that alone for now. If your float were way off you would probably have trouble with idle, it would not hurt to check and make sure the level is correct, but it sound more like what my bike does when I run too rich a jet or have the fuel needle set too high. you might try dropping your fuel neede down a notch. If you have a leaner/smaller main jet I would try that and see if it gets better or worse. I would start by taking the bike out and run it at that stumbling point for a short stretch and immediately shut off the igntion and pull in the clucth and coast to the side of the road, pull the plug and see if the center elctrode and inside of the plug is covered in black soot or is it looking bleached out white and that should tell you if you are rich or lean....

[boggy]

I fouled a plug when I first got the bike few years back from running it too rich.  No rev limit problems then.  Since adjusting it I check my plug somewhat regularly but it never looks sooty or white. 

Now, my "fuel needle' is the one that is attached to the throttle slide, correct?  There are 5 notches for the little clip that raises it or lowers it (man, its TINY increments!).  Mine is one notch higher than center.  That was the first thing I check after taking it out of storage as I thought maybe I flubbed it when I changed throttle cables last summer (around when the problem started).  That is an easy check... so just lower that clip down a notch or two?  Man, that little clip is TIGHT on there. I check to see if I moved it an was reassured by how tight it is.  How do I take it off without damaging it or the needle?

Thanks RGT.

[RGT]

yes that is your fuel needle, lowering the clip raises the needle and lets in more fuel. I usually grab the clip with needlenose plier. You really want to see what the plug color is at the point of the problem which is why I described the plug chop procedure above. If you just pull the plug after you get home you will not get an indication of what was going on at your problem point.

[boggy]

pull the plug and see if the center elctrode and inside of the plug is covered in black soot or is it looking bleached out white and that should tell you if you are rich or lean....

Interesting.  Ok, so just to clarify, I want to pull the plug and check it immediately.  I read this in the Snidal manual too, but I guess I didn't realize it was an immediate, "in the moment" check.  I figured if it got sooty or white, that is the way it would stay when I got home and pulled the plug.  For the life of me I couldn't figure out why Snidal was telling me to pull it after a 30 second run.

[baird4444]

This sounds like a "Rich bog" to me.  You can accelerate to a point and then it just
stops....  hence the rev limiter statement. My guess is that you are WAY to
rich. Check for the sooty plug on a plug chop to confirm and then change to
a smaller jet.  These things aren't as easy to dial in as the Micarb...
           - Mike
                     

[GreenMachine]

micarb is easy isn't it...depending on endowment, it seems to have a wee bit of leeway...

[UncleErnie]

If you have a kink i the gas line that lets you run the bike, but still resrticts the flow, you can be running out of gas until the gas line refilss at a lower speed.
I might be your tank cap vent is clogged, too.

[boggy]

Ok - I'll do the plug chop if the rain holds off for the weekend.  Thanks for the tip - I thought just pulling the plug was enough, but I get it now.

So if I am too rich then I'll try lowering the fuel needle (it only has one more notch to go) which will lean it out.

If that doesn't do it I guess I'll need to address the main jet.

Uncle Ernie, if the fuel vents through my gas cap I think I'm ok as at the moment it leaks like an iced tea pitcher.  I did pull my fuel line too.

I think I got all that right? Seems like a good place to start.  Thanks guys.

Boggy

[Ragmas]

Ok - I'll do the plug chop if the rain holds off for the weekend.  Thanks for the tip - I thought just pulling the plug was enough, but I get it now.

So if I am too rich then I'll try lowering the fuel needle (it only has one more notch to go) which will lean it out.

If that doesn't do it I guess I'll need to address the main jet.

Uncle Ernie, if the fuel vents through my gas cap I think I'm ok as at the moment it leaks like an iced tea pitcher.  I did pull my fuel line too.

I think I got all that right? Seems like a good place to start.  Thanks guys.

Boggy

A quick tip on removing needle clip.  (hard to explain with out pictures but here I go.)

Get a socket of whatever size you can fir the cli into.  Now, lay the needle in its side ( so it lookslike a fencing foil, rapier sword, lying down.  Make sure the clip's openg in facing down.  Take the aforementioned socket and place it over the clip.  Push down gently and the clip should pop off into the socket.  Stow clip somewhere safe or replace forthwith.  Replace in the same manner as removal.

Good luck.
Sam

[The Garbone]

Dirty air filter?

[boggy]

Thanks for the tip Ragmas.  That clip is perfect dimensions for losing.

Garbone... Freshly cleaned filter. Even ran it sans-filter last fall to try and diagnose.

Thanks.

[Ragmas]

Thanks for the tip Ragmas.  That clip is perfect dimensions for losing.

Garbone... Freshly cleaned filter. Even ran it sans-filter last fall to try and diagnose.

Thanks.

I am glad you were able to understand my blathering.

Good luck,

Sam

[boggy]

I lowered the needle by raising the clip to the needle's top most position and the problem persists.  About the same as before.

I did a plug chop and it was indeed sooty.

I guess the next step would be to address the main jet?  I've searched the threads here for a good #s to start with but I don't see any definite answers.  I pulled my carb off - Can you get an indication of what the jet sizes are if you take them out?  Are they stamped on there?

Here's the thing that makes me crazy - when I bought this bike 2 seasons ago (used) it was running fine.  

Could either a bent needle or a bad battery give me the same problem?  I'm grasping here.

Baird, I read on here that you have a 30mm flat... you have numbers you're happy with?

[boggy]

I lowered the needle by raising the clip to the needle's top most position and the problem persists.  About the same as before.

I did a plug chop and it was indeed sooty.

My main jet is at 135 and my pilot is 38.

Here's the thing that makes me crazy - when I bought this bike 2 seasons ago (used) it was running fine. Really strong performer.

EDIT
I just took off the carb to see what was going on.  Here is a major WTF that I can't figure out.  Check out the photo below.  On this carb, there is the idle screw.  On the other side there is a hole in the same spot. It goes to the same spot the idle screw goes but has a hole maybe half the diameter.  On my carb, it is half-sealed up with what looks like epoxy.  I say half filled because it's falling apart and there is a hole I can blow air through.  What the hell is this?

Here's a link to the carb schematic. That hole is shown, but not identified.
http://scootrs.com/images/pwk-type.png

[ace.cafe]

I  have no experience with that carb, but the other guys on this forum that use it are using much leaner jets with it.
I read some are using a 19 pilot and 125 main jet with it, and getting good results.
I think you are too rich.

On the other thing with the hole, plug it up with something removable, and see if that helps or hurts anything.

[baird4444]

That PWK is a licensed copy of the Keihin. That idle screw can be moved to the left side for those that wish after removing a plug. Sounds like some how that plug got lost and sumth'n like jb weld or ?? was used and now it is disintegrated.
    Still sounds rich, is your air filter and silencer stock?
                   - Mike

[boggy]

Ace, I recall seeing that thread.  I'll have to find somewhere to get some jets; Nfield gear says "out of stock."

Baird,
That's what I was thinking for the idle screw, although it's clearly smaller diameter from the inside.  K&N pancake filter, freshly cleaned.  Sportster style straight pipe exhaust (previous owner installed). 

A very early plug fowl when I first got it gave me the notion things were rich, but damn it, it ran well.  Then this bog has come on slowly from inconsistent, to constant.  That other idle hole is free-flowing now. I'm really suspect that it was epoxy'd shut and has slowly worn off.  Very curious.  What do you think?

 I'll have to wait for the weekend to check it out.  I'd like to get jets anyways since I'm in there.  I wonder if any shops around me will carry them.

Thanks.
Boggy

[RGT]

do you have one of those plastic/composit floats? when I first started running my bike I found that I could not set the float to the manual specified level without it running to rich, I dropped the float a couple of mm and it ran fine, I got a brass float for it and was able to set it to spec and have it run good.

[1Blackwolf1]

  You can get jets at most decent motorcycle repair shops or dealerships.  If you have a bike junkyard near you you can probably get a handful of them for cheap.

[Bullet.wagon]

I run a PWK on my Triumph . You can get jets from flea bay if the nfield store doesn't stock. OKO carbs  I believe use the same jets.

[boggy]

I do have the composite float in there.

I'm actually now seeing on ebay that there is supposed to be a little brass screw there.  You can clearly see it in the attached photo below.  I can't believe I overlooked this.  As I said, it was epoxy'd and I bet it wore off.  

Bullet.Wagon, I'm guessing your PWK has this?  And is it just screwed all the way in tight?

I'm seeing these PWK/OKO rebuild kits on ebay and I'm wondering if that part is the one between the fuel needle and the idle adjuster.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OKO-carburetor-rebuild-kit-flatslide-PWK-30mm-/230605237067?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35b124ab4b

Thanks everyone.

[UncleErnie]

Funny eBay ad.  Thank God it's shipped from Taiwan, eh?

FWIW, I've found that JB Weld lasts long enough to sell your bike and then the buyer has to figure out what's wrong.  It doesn't hold up with long-term exposure to gas.

[rajivc666]

If your ignition is the centrifugal advance type, then it is possible that something is wrong with the advance mechanism. In that case the exhaust pipe will most likely turn yellowish due to retarded timing at higher RPM 

[Bullet.wagon]

Boggy: Yes that screw should be tight,it's just a plug,probably the original vibrated out and was lost. Without that passage plugged it would affect running.

[boggy]

Thanks BW, I've ordered a rebuild kit for the carb which includes the plug.  I put a "band aid" on it to see if it would be an immediate fix - and I really thought it would - but would you believe it didn't fix my issue?

I've gone ahead and ordered a new main jet at Ace's and other's recommendation: 125.  Can not seem to track down a #19 pilot jet.

I really thought it was the plug (not the spark plug - the carb's "extra" hole) since it was epoxy'd shut and then started deteriorating.  To me, it was the perfect explanation as to why bike ran great a few years ago but slowly started "bogging" at higher rpms.  I thought for sure that hole was just getting bigger.

But who knows - A proper screw plug there might work better than my temp fix so we'll have to see.

Thanks.
Boggy

p.s.
rajivc666, my pipe is definitely on the bluer side.

[boggy]

OK -
So I put the main jet 125 in an things are instantly better.  No more flat spot in any gear.  Feels great. 

I still do have a little flub here and there.  If I crank on it pretty hard, things are mostly smooth, but you can here and feel an intermittent flub.  I'll track down a pilot jet and see if that evens things out.

I still don't get how this problem came on gradually.  It seems like if my carb was jetted incorrectly, it would have shown that flat spot immediately.  It ran fine that first season I had it.  Rich - but no flat spots.

Thank you very much for the help guys.  I'd be taking the bus without it.

[RGT]

maybe due to your rings seating in? a little carbon building up on the combustion chamber surfaces? glad you got a big improvement. With my bike I get a slight miss/stumble on hot dry days, humid and or cool days and it will not miss a beat....

[boggy]

Can you explain the "rings seating?" 

I have thought the carbon build up might be nasty since I've run it so rich for so long. I know there are threads on de-carbonizing that I'll have to check out.  I put in a new plug BEFORE i re-jetted, just to get it 20 miles from it's winter storage to home.  The plug was BLACK after that run.

But ya, huge improvement.

Thanks for the help.

[RGT]

when an engine has new pistons, rings and honing on the cylinder bore it will not have its full compression due to leakage past the rings, it can also burn more oil. But as the rings seat themselves and wear in the cylinder honing your compression can increase and reduce or eliminate any oil consumption....

[boggy]

I see. Interesting.

[boggy]

I am ready to switch carbs  - this flat slide has almost beaten me.

The short story is I had a bad throttle bog that came on last season, slowly.

Main was a 135. Pilot was a 38.  Needle was in the middle.  Bogged past half throttle.  Idled pretty crappy.

Then I dropped the  main to a 125 and lowered the needle to the top notch.  Rich bog really reduced but was still there past 3/4 throttle.  Idled dead steady!  

Today I tried to get rid of the rest of the bog by putting in a 20 pilot.  People recommended the 19 but it was tough to track down.  Regardless... things got worse.  Idled like crap... all over the place.  Bogged with the throttle half open.  Plug chopped with it bogging on quite a good stretch.  Still sooty.

I don't know where to go.  
-I guess since it idled really well I should have left he pilot alone?  
-Maybe since dropping my main down to a 125 improved so much I should go lower with my main?  How low do they go?  

Main is so much easier to swap anyways.  Gonna put the old pilot back in tomorrow.  Shout if you guys have any ideas.  Man... I'm really thinking about suggestions for a new carb!  Can't dial this one in.

[ace.cafe]

My usual method, if I'm not sure which way to go, is to buy one richer and one leaner jet, and try them to see if I can get a directional indicator. Then if I find out which way(richer or leaner) gets better, I fine tune it in that direction.
Because of altitudes and temps, your jetting might not be the same as somebody else's recommendations. It might vary somewhat from what is best for them. That is why I always ask for altitude and temp info when somebody has a jetting issue.

I hate to let a carb beat me, but if you feel like you have had enough and want another carb, I have plenty of experience with the Mikuni TM32 flat slide, and can help you alot better with tuning that carb. And that is one helluva carb, too. And it is not very expensive.

And just so you know, I have heard some scuttlebutt about that 30mm OKO/JRCcarb on the web, that it has too small of a float bowl, and it starts to starve the bike for fuel (running out of power) at large throttle openings. I don't know if that is true because I haven't run that carb, but I have heard the stories.

[TWinOKC]

I am ready to switch carbs  - this flat slide has almost beaten me.

The short story is I had a bad throttle bog that came on last season, slowly.

Main was a 135. Pilot was a 38.  Needle was in the middle.  Bogged past half throttle.  Idled pretty crappy.

Then I dropped the  main to a 125 and lowered the needle to the top notch.  Rich bog really reduced but was still there past 3/4 throttle.  Idled dead steady!  

Today I tried to get rid of the rest of the bog by putting in a 20 pilot.  People recommended the 19 but it was tough to track down.  Regardless... things got worse.  Idled like crap... all over the place.  Bogged with the throttle half open.  Plug chopped with it bogging on quite a good stretch.  Still sooty.

I don't know where to go.  
-I guess since it idled really well I should have left he pilot alone?  
-Maybe since dropping my main down to a 125 improved so much I should go lower with my main?  How low do they go?  

Main is so much easier to swap anyways.  Gonna put the old pilot back in tomorrow.  Shout if you guys have any ideas.  Man... I'm really thinking about suggestions for a new carb!  Can't dial this one in.

What about a mikuni carb?   I really don't know sh_t about carbs but mikuni's seem very popular and I am told perform well.   Maybe they are too expensive?   Not suitable for RE?     Just a suggestion.   

[The Garbone]

I am ready to switch carbs  - this flat slide has almost beaten me.

The short story is I had a bad throttle bog that came on last season, slowly.

Main was a 135. Pilot was a 38.  Needle was in the middle.  Bogged past half throttle.  Idled pretty crappy.

Then I dropped the  main to a 125 and lowered the needle to the top notch.  Rich bog really reduced but was still there past 3/4 throttle.  Idled dead steady!  

Today I tried to get rid of the rest of the bog by putting in a 20 pilot.  People recommended the 19 but it was tough to track down.  Regardless... things got worse.  Idled like crap... all over the place.  Bogged with the throttle half open.  Plug chopped with it bogging on quite a good stretch.  Still sooty.

I don't know where to go.  
-I guess since it idled really well I should have left he pilot alone?  
-Maybe since dropping my main down to a 125 improved so much I should go lower with my main?  How low do they go?  

Main is so much easier to swap anyways.  Gonna put the old pilot back in tomorrow.  Shout if you guys have any ideas.  Man... I'm really thinking about suggestions for a new carb!  Can't dial this one in.

Was it worse on the 2nd clip from the top?   You have the exact same setup as me (125) and mine is dead on, running an Ace can and Goldie.   I do get a tiny bit of rich bog when the temp goes over 95 or so but below 80 it is real sharp all the way up the throttle and goes like a raped ape..    Float level?

[boggy]

Ace - Since this is a top end thing, do you think I should go back to the pilot that had my bike idling well, and try going up and down from my 125 main?  And by up and down, do you mean 126 and 124 or a bigger sway?

Ace/TWinOKC - I'm interested in this Mikuni for sure.  I just want to get back to riding for crying out loud.  This is my daily commuter and thats all the time I get to ride.  If I don't get my a.m. and p.m. therapy sessions in, my mood goes south.  

I see that NField sells it in a kit form.  I'll call them and price out the carb.  I have a k&n pancake - would I need to change that?  I'll check the threads for jet recommendations.  I'm not gonna pull the trigger yet... but I need a back up plan for sure.

Was it worse on the 2nd clip from the top?   You have the exact same setup as me (125) and mine is dead on, running an Ace can and Goldie.   I do get a tiny bit of rich bog when the temp goes over 95 or so but below 80 it is real sharp all the way up the throttle and goes like a raped ape..    Float level?

Haha.  Raped ape.  Disturbingly hilarious description.  What pilot are you running Garbone?  I'm at sea level... shoot... in a few spots I might be a few feet below.  Temp in summer is 70-95.  Definitely acts up as the weather gets hot.

I've thought about the float.  It flubs when I go over a big bump or a big bridge seam.  I would have to read up on how to adjust the height.  What is your air screw dialed at?

I appreciate all the help guys.  Like I said, this had now seriously rained on my riding season so I'm ready to swap it out if I can't dial it in.  Thanks very much.

[The Garbone]

Running the same pilot, 38.  I have a 35 I was going to give a go in my 95 but I am so frustrated with that thing I just let it sit there in the garage. 

Air screw is at about 1.25 out or so.   I have some popping on deceleration but have not messed with it since the bike starts first kick...

After I get off work I can did up some jets,  I think I have a 123 and a 128 I can give you if you want.. Not like they are doing me any good...

I put money on 2nd clip and a tweak of the float level...

[boggy]

I think I'll head back to the 38 then and try 1.25 turns on the air screw to get back to where it was "ok."  I might take you up on the main jets... I'll let you know.  Thanks for offering.

It idled great in that config and bottom end was ok.  Mid throttle was usually good but as the top end bog increased or decreased, as did min throttle power.

Is past half-way on the throttle all main-jet?  I'll have to dial this float in too.

Thanks.

[ace.cafe]

What about a mikuni carb?   I really don't know sh_t about carbs but mikuni's seem very popular and I am told perform well.   Maybe they are too expensive?   Not suitable for RE?    Just a suggestion.  

TWinOKC,
I use the Mikuni TM32 flat-slide on all the Fireball builds.
It kicks ass.
It's what I would recommend, if he can't get this 30mm working the way he wants.
They are only abut $150 on Ebay. And I know how to jet them for the Bullet. None of the stock jets in the TM32 work for the Bullet, so you have to change everything. But it's not hard. You'll probably spend about $30-$35 in jets.

Boggy,
Use the pilot jet that it starts ad idles well with.
Then work on the main jet after that.
After you get the main jet set where it will go good on full-throttle, and show a good plug chop there, then work on the needle jet and needle for the midrange.

[The Garbone]

Just a thought..

You should try it without the air filter with the 125 jet..  I remember I was getting a bog with the rain shield installed on my Ace can once the filter got a bit dirty, pulled the rain shield and it cleared up.   

[boggy]

I'll try that Garbone.  I did it back with the old main in there, but not the 125.

Ace,
I'll also need a rubber mount to fit that carb to the Enfield, correct?  Can I ask the jet settings and needle position you are using on that 32mm?  I saw a post way back where you were running a 28mm Mikuni.

Is this the one?

http://www.amazon.com/Mikuni-TMX-Flat-Valve-Carb/dp/B000GV7S7Q

[ace.cafe]

I'll try that Garbone.  I did it back with the old main in there, but not the 125.

Ace,
I'll also need a rubber mount to fit that carb to the Enfield, correct?  Can I ask the jet settings and needle position you are using on that 32mm?  I saw a post way back where you were running a 28mm Mikuni.

Is this the one?

http://www.amazon.com/Mikuni-TMX-Flat-Valve-Carb/dp/B000GV7S7Q

We use the Mikuni TM32-1 on the Fireball. I haven't tried the TMX series.
We use these jets on the Fireball with the TM32
30 pilot
P4 needle jet
Standard needle with clip in 2nd groove from the top.
Standard slide cutaway
185 main jet

Yes, you need the rubber hose mount and a manifold stub, with a 32mm I.D. in the manifold. We make manifolds for the Iron Barrel, but i don't know if the size and stud spacing is correct for an AVL.
Sudco has a variety of rubber manifolds that don't require a hose, and sit right next to the head, and they only cost something like $25. If you can measure your stud spacing, you should be able to get an appropriate size one from them.

[boggy]

Ok. I appreciate the info. Now I have to decide if I continue to battle the pwk or start over with a mikuni. Even with some starter settings on the mikuni, I'll be at square one, but it will at least be "new."

The main on the pwk is easy to swap, but the pilot requires removal of at least the float bowl, and taking the whole carb off is easier.

How easy are jet swaps on the mikuni? I'm going to at least call CMW and have them price one out with the RE rubber mount that is needed.

Thanks again for sticking with me here.

By the way - I don't understand how to measure the float height. I've read a bit, but it's not clear.

[baird4444]

To begin, the float height is 19mm for both the 24mm and 28/30 PWK carb:

If you open the bottom of the carb, turn the carb over first. If you simply pull the bottom off straight down you will see that it catches because the float is hanging down. If you force it off, you can bend the tab on the float and then the shutoff valve won't work properly and the carb will overflow all the time. Turn the carb over so the float is at the top before opening the bottom and do it gently.

Measure the height from the bottom of the float to carburetor-body gasket surface. When checking the float height, the float should be resting, but not depressing, the spring-loaded float valve pin. This can be done by tilting the carburetor until the float tab just makes contact with the valve pin. If adjustment is needed, bend the metal tab on the float arm until correct height is obtained.

[boggy]

the float should be resting, but not depressing, the spring-loaded float valve pin.

Ah.  Perfect.  That's great info.  Thanks very much Baird.

Well, I'm hoping this is good news, but if my measuring is correct my float was also at 22mm.  I wonder if that is stock for this carb?  I know I've read similar findings on other PWK threads here.  I took it down to 19mm, as best as I could tell.  Cautioned on the smaller side but I think I got it pretty close on the mark.

I put my previous pilot in (38) since my idle was right on.  

I'm going to get up before work tomorrow and toss it on.  Fingers crossed.

[baird4444]

Good Luck- let us know

[boggy]

Tossed the carb back on after adjusting the float and putting the 38 pilot back in.  Idled perfectly again.  Took it out and cranked on it.

I brought the engine up to it's top and end it was not bogging out.  Where before I could get it at a very obvious point, I could not reproduce the bog.

I don't want to jump the gun.  I need to do a few things.  There is a nice gradual climb up the bridge on my way into work that requires some goosing.  That will be an indicator.  I'll also get a passenger on back, because that seemed to induce the issue by requiring a wider throttle opening sooner.  Rain today, so I had to leave it.

I got some above normal backfiring on deceleration that I'll dial in and in about in a half mile stretch of steady idle I'd get one or two QUICK cut outs.  I'm not too concerned yet as the carb was only on for 20 minutes and I'd like to run the fuel through it a bit more.  I will also need to do some plug chops a few speeds.

I'm thinking positive here though... I think this damn float bowl might have been the culprit.  These PWKs CLEARLY run rich, but this bog seems like it may be settled now with the float bowl ajustment.

I'll let you guys know how things proceed when the rain stops but as for now, phew.  Big thanks to all you guys.  Ace, Baird, Garbone, TWin... really.  Thanks very much for the guidance.  I greatly appreciate it.

Boggy

[boggy]

Things are still not squared away.  Here is where I stand.

1/4 and less throttle is good.
PASSED 3/4 throttle is good!  That's great.  Float bowl height had to be the culprit there.  Really goes with it wide open.  What a difference.

My mid range is bogging out.  Did a plug chop: sooty.
125 main. 38 pilot. Needle in the top slot.

What I tried from there:
-I put the needle 1 slot down from the top to see if it would make the problem worse and it did.
-It seemed like the more I unscrewed my air screw, the sooner it would bog out.  So air screw out, more fuel in, yes?

I'm not sure what the hell to try next.  I'm glad I have my top end back.  It really screams with the throttled cracked wide.  Now where the hell did my mid range go?  I'd say I need to go leaner on my needle but I'm leaned out.  I could re-try the 25 pilot jet since my float bowl seems better.

The whole rub of this ordeal is that when I bought this bike 3 seasons ago, it ran just fine with the carb in its stock form.  Season two showed a steady increase in the bog.  I'm sure weather contributed, but the entire first 7 months I rode it I had no troubles.  Everything I'm not doing to the carb IS having an effect, but what would cause a gradual increase in these symptoms?

[The Garbone]

I wonder if it is a needle profile thing....  No clue otherwise...

[boggy]

Has to be. Right? 

Just ordered the two needles with leaner characteristics. Fingers, toes, and eyes crossed.

If this doesn't work, I'll be inquiring as to what caliber bullet I'll need to put a hole in this mother f@cker.

[TWinOKC]

If this doesn't work, I'll be inquiring as to what caliber bullet I'll need to put a hole in this mother f@cker.

Hang in there boggy, I have a feeling things are going to work out. 

[baird4444]

boggy- I was going thru this thread and found this from your post on the 14th...

"What I tried from there:
-I put the needle 1 slot down from the top to see if it would make the problem worse and it did.
-It seemed like the more I unscrewed my air screw, the sooner it would bog out.  So air screw out, more fuel in, yes? "

NO- unscrewing makes it leaner; screwing in makes richer...
   in=richer....  would  this change yer outcum?
          - Mike

[boggy]

Righty - Richer, Lefty - Leaner.  You'd think I could remember that.

It might baird.  It's certainly worth a try considering the tighter it is the more it's acting up.  I have it out 2.25 turns.  If the rain holds off tonight I'll give it a run for sure and dial it out even more.

Thanks for that correction!
Boggy

*Update: Dialing it leaner definitely reduces the issue.  Went out 3.5 turns and when I stopped a quarter mile away and put my eyes on the air screw, wouldn't you know that little sucker was slowly spinning out.  Reminded me of that scene in Close Encounters.  Seems I can't go more than 3 without losing the screw - but honestly it doesn't idle nearly as well as when it's at about 2 and 1/4 so I'm hoping these leaner needles will cure the mid-range blues.

[baird4444]

   or leaner mainjet- did you try smaller AFTER you reset the float?

[boggy]

I did not.  I have a range of main AND pilot jets coming in with the needles.  I'm at 125 right now and the kit I bought I believe is 120-130. 

It's the easiest jet to swap out on these suckers since I don't have to take the carb out.  You think that is worth a try before swapping needles?

[baird4444]

I did not.  I have a range of main AND pilot jets coming in with the needles.  I'm at 125 right now and the kit I bought I believe is 120-130. 
It's the easiest jet to swap out on these suckers since I don't have to take the carb out.  You think that is worth a try before swapping needles?

start with the easiest....
it seems to me that if it runs better with the screw 3 turns out;
very lean screw setting; that you could go down in jet size. I've always
heard that if you need to run less than a turn out then go UP a jet...
this is the same thinking but in reverse....
  just thinking out loud - Mike

[barenekd]

Have you checked the throttle slide? It could be worn out allowing air to go around the sides. Very common on Amals. I'm not particularly familiar with your carb, but the possibility is certainly high, particularly since over time it has been getting progressively worse.
Bare

[boggy]

I hear what you are saying Baird.  It's as easy as taking off the float bowl so I'll start there when the jets arrive.  Thanks.

Interesting thought barenekd.  Worth investigating for sure - I'll have to take a close look. I bought a carb rebuild kit that came with mostly everything, but it did not include a slide.

[boggy]

It always seems to curse me when I say this, but I'll tempt fate again by saying my situation seems to have improved.

Was gonna swap my 125 main for a 120 to see what kind of difference it made.  Screwing it in - SNAP.  Little bastard broke with barely an effort.  Oh well - twisted in the next one I had - 122. Took it for a spin and things seemed better.  No bog.  Found a nice steep hill to bomb up and no issues.

So that's great.  Really great.  We'll see how a few weeks of commuting goes as it's warm and humid today and a dry cool day is entirely different.

Only thing that I feel is off is a quick closing of the throttle sort of bogs it out.  Really quick closing.  Not sure if thats an issue or just the nature of things.

I was curious as a kitten about a leaner needle though and switched it out.  Nah.  Didn't like it.  Idled crap.  Throttle response was crap.  Nope.  Switched back and I'll see how things go.

Cool for now.  Thanks a lot guys. Thanks for suggesting I try the main jet again baird.  The bike lives for now TWinOKC.  "For now."  

[baird4444]

  " Cool for now.  Thanks a lot guys. Thanks for suggesting I try the main jet again baird.  The bike lives for now TWinOKC.  "For now."  "

      Very cool!!   just out of curiosity where is your air screw set now?
I've never expected perfection out of mine; fewer disappointments
and a lot more happy endings!
           - Mike

[boggy]

2 turns has always given me the best idle.  Maybe a quarter turn in either direction for the major temp change from spring through winter. Really steady.

*UPDATE

After my first real ride into work - bike is running great.  Really smooth.  I feel like I've had a HP or two more before but who knows.

My idle IS steady, but its running high and the idle adjust screw isn't winding it down at all so I may need to dial in my air screw a touch.

[baird4444]

"My idle IS steady, but its running high and the idle adjust screw isn't winding it down at all so I may need to dial in my air screw a touch."

  How bout the cable slack??  would it help to give a little
at the adjuster on top of the carby?

[boggy]

Ya man.  You got it again.  The throttle cable adjuster was dialed out too far.  You are gettin' good at this long distance trouble shooting.  Thanks Baird.

[baird4444]

      Glad to help...   
           start with the easiest and cheapest....
           never overlook the obvious...
           ride it like you stole it...       
                     - mike